Can we win against casino playing baccarat or roulette

[AlohaHawaii]

I am just wondering are there any winning formulas, to play baccarat or roulette, to win against casinos. To search for this formula, lets probe to the bottom, of why casinos always win. Lets probe!

Theoretically, assuming if there are no table limits and if we are allowed to double our stakes with each loses, then of course this is the winning formula. Of course, in all tables, there are wagering limits and so this cuts off this winning formula.

I have many friends who gamble in casinos and all of them lose. I dont believe that casinos always have better luck that causes us to lose. If luck is not the issue, then it has to be house advantage or human factor that causes us to lose.

Of course all of us know that in roulette and baccarat, the casinos have a house advantage over us. But is this advantage, huge enough to tip the tables in favour of the casinos so much so that ALLLL of us will lose eventually? Personally I dont think so because in roulette, the zero is only about 3% advantage ( 1 out of 37) and in baccarat, about 2-4 % advantage.

If house advantage is not the main cause of our loses, then the reasons have to be either human factor or human factor plus house advantage. If this is the case, then I would say that human factors are the main cause of our loses in casinos. If human factors are the main cause of our loses, then there should be a way to win against casinos.

May I have your views before I proceed further.

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by AlohaHawaii

I am just wondering are there any winning formulas, to play baccarat or roulette, to win against casinos.

No.
If there was a way do you really think casinos would continue to offer these games?

Originally Posted by AlohaHawaii

Theoretically, assuming if there are no table limits and if we are allowed to double our stakes with each loses, then of course this is the winning formula. Of course, in all tables, there are wagering limits and so this cuts off this winning formula.

You answered your own question!

Originally Posted by AlohaHawaii

If this is the case, then I would say that human factors are the main cause of our loses in casinos.

Agreed.
And the main human factor which leads to losses is people thinking they can beat the mathematical odds.
You might as well try to defy gravity!

Originally Posted by AlohaHawaii

If human factors are the main cause of our loses, then there should be a way to win against casinos.

There is!
But it does not involve these games.
(They're not allowed in WR...)

[Matthew23]

Since there is absolutely zero skill involved in roulette, it doesn't matter if it's a human playing or a cockroach. A cockroach would win just as often as a human.

You will always lose in the long run no matter what game you play. So therefore it's best to think along the lines of the entertainment value, rather than the winning. That's why I play slots, they pay less, but they're more fun!

[BingoT]

Do you really think people have Winning Systems to beat the casinos.
To me this is &*&^%$# but you do have some pro's that count cards.Just think if everyone had a way to Win Win Win all the time You would see many places fold and close the doors and look for pennies on the street for a paycheck.
And to any gambler we all think we have our own type of System that we can Win on.But in the long run we lose.

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by AlohaHawaii

I am just wondering are there any winning formulas, to play baccarat or roulette, to win against casinos. To search for this formula, lets probe to the bottom, of why casinos always win. Lets probe!

If there was such a formula, everyone would be using it and casinos would go bankrupt. However, there is a theoretical possibility to do card counting in Baccarat (Live) which means that there are occasional situations where player has a small edge. But it is estimated that the hourly salary by doing this counting is less then $1 per hour. So Baccarat can be beaten but the hourly salary is very low.

Theoretically, assuming if there are no table limits and if we are allowed to double our stakes with each loses, then of course this is the winning formula. Of course, in all tables, there are wagering limits and so this cuts off this winning formula.

Yes, keep in mind that you would need to have infinite wealth as well. Suppose you start with $1 bet and get 20 losses in a row, and double your bet each time. You would need $1.05 million to do the next bet and there is still 50-50 chance that you lose even that million.

I have many friends who gamble in casinos and all of them lose. I dont believe that casinos always have better luck that causes us to lose. If luck is not the issue, then it has to be house advantage or human factor that causes us to lose.

It is in part the house advantage, but keep in mind that casinos usually win even if they don't have house advantage. That's because if you compare the bankroll of a casino and a player, it is easy to guess who is the one to run out of money first.

Of course all of us know that in roulette and baccarat, the casinos have a house advantage over us. But is this advantage, huge enough to tip the tables in favour of the casinos so much so that ALLLL of us will lose eventually? Personally I dont think so because in roulette, the zero is only about 3% advantage ( 1 out of 37) and in baccarat, about 2-4 % advantage.

Roulette has 2.7% advantage (1.35% in French Roulette even bets). Baccarat has 1.06% advantage if you bet on "Banker". So in general Baccarat is a better game in terms of house edge. The small 1% - 3% house edge actually makes a huge difference on how well you do in the game, because the house edge is present in each bet even if you win! It would be totally different if the house edge would be deducted from your balance only once and then you would play 100% return games as much as you like.

If house advantage is not the main cause of our loses, then the reasons have to be either human factor or human factor plus house advantage. If this is the case, then I would say that human factors are the main cause of our loses in casinos. If human factors are the main cause of our loses, then there should be a way to win against casinos.

May I have your views before I proceed further.

Human factors cause losses only if there is a game where you can play incorrect strategy but other than that human factors don't have anything to do with chances of winning. Like previous poster said a cockroach would win as easily in the casino.

The only way to win against casinos is to play Casino bonuses with optimal strategy and retain as much value of those bonuses as possible during play-through. There are people doing this as their full-time job, you know.

[james01]

The real reason why casinos win is that humans don't stop when they're ahead. If everyone stopped as soon as they were a bit ahead, the casinos would lose. No one wants to walk away with a little win. They want to walk away with a BIG win!

Chasing the big win is why we usually lose.

[Matthew23]

Originally Posted by james01

The real reason why casinos win is that humans don't stop when they're ahead. If everyone stopped as soon as they were a bit ahead, the casinos would lose.

It's true that people don't always stop when they're ahead, but that's not why the casino wins. It's a mathematical certainly that the casino will win in the long run. Just like 10 + 10 = 20..... no matter what angle you look at it, it will always equal 20.

If you win it's covered by someone elses losses. If you lose they'll use it to pay other winners. Over all the the casino makes $0.04 for ever $1 spin you make, regardless of the outcome of that particular spin.

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by james01

The real reason why casinos win is that humans don't stop when they're ahead. If everyone stopped as soon as they were a bit ahead, the casinos would lose. No one wants to walk away with a little win. They want to walk away with a BIG win!

Chasing the big win is why we usually lose.

Unfortunately the concept "Quit while you are ahead" usually fails. You can walk away from the casino with a small win but you will most certainly come back at some point (maybe even after 20 years) and eventually lose it back.

This concept is known as "Gambler's conceit" and it is well explained in the following Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_conceit

[SlotMonster]

Hello, AlohaHawaii!
Regarding your question. Actually I cannot say anything about Baccarat, because I didn't play it even once. As for Roulette, so I think it can be beaten. I know, some time ago I made the mathematical research and it was proven that Roulette can't be beaten, but it's all about internet-casinos. Playing Live Roulette in internet-casino or in land-based casino, you can beat it using "visual tracking". It's something like "betting system", when you can predict in which sector the ball will fall. To predict the sector you have to know several factors:
1. The radial velocity of roulette wheel (and it's radius) in that moment when a ball tears off from a dealer's hand.
2. The speed of a ball in that moment when when the ball tears off from a dealer's hand.
3. Friction force between a ball and a wheel when spin.
4. The sector in which ball teas off from a dealer's hand.

To determine the speed of a ball and a wheel you need high quality video-camera, which is connected with powerful PC. The camera will transmit the video on PC, and special program will analyze the data and make predictions.
But be careful, because casinos do not allow players to bring their cameras and shoot the wheel

You also can use your eyes. Because if you know the factor #3, can determine (by sight) factors ##1,2 and 4, so you can predict (roughly) where the ball will fall. Of course, you have to do a lot of math before you will be able to determine sector

[AlohaHawaii]

Originally Posted by SlotMonster

Hello, AlohaHawaii!
Regarding your question. Actually ..........sector

Hi SlotMonster and friends,
I have thought about your suggestions. I agree that we can calculate exactly which sector the ball will land but because the ball is bouncing and rolling after it land, it is difficult to know which sector it will stop. Nevertheless , this will still give us an edge.

With regards to baccarat and roulette, I still feel that there "could" be a theoretical winning strategy. I agree that casinos have a house advantage but I am not convince that this house advantage is enough to swipe us away.

I still feel that eventually most of us lose because of our human setbacks such as greed, impatience, etc. In fact, when most of the players lose, they lose more than that house advantage which the casinos should win, and in most case they lose everything in their pocket, example if they play baccarat for 2 hours, betting on average of about $100, sometimes putting more bets, sometimes less and when they are losing, they just put more and more until they lose everything. This is a very common scenario for most players.

Because casinos knows that it is very difficult for a human being to control themselves especially when losing, and when a player lose, they lose more than that "house advantage" as mentioned, and in most cases, when losing they will lose everything, henceforth these casinos are willing to handout very attractive perks to entice players to their casinos, these perks can include free accomodations, meals, planes, transport, 1% rolling rebates etc. and these perks can work out to be more than the "house advantage". There are many cruise ships that offer perks too and at the end of the day we will still see many players losing a lot of money. I am therefore very inclined to think that casinos win because of our human setbacks.

to be continued tomorrow........