MG independent audit

[james01]

It doesn't make sense that they'd be weighted the way you suggest. It's too easy for a player to just cash out as soon as they hit a win.

What would make more sense is that you'd only hit a win after X number of spins - when you've already spent the value of the win.

Additionally, it's pretty much a given that if you don't play full bet on all paylines, you are playing worse odds. This is doubly true of progressive jackpots, which almost uniformly don't give you a crack at the progressive if you're not playing all paylines.

Basically, you gotta play max bet every round to get the odds they promise. Of course, then you're spending big bucks each spin so you can't get into enough spins to hit anything good.

Now I remember why I tend to play in play mode...

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by james01

It doesn't make sense that they'd be weighted the way you suggest. It's too easy for a player to just cash out as soon as they hit a win.

What would make more sense is that you'd only hit a win after X number of spins - when you've already spent the value of the win.

Additionally, it's pretty much a given that if you don't play full bet on all paylines, you are playing worse odds. This is doubly true of progressive jackpots, which almost uniformly don't give you a crack at the progressive if you're not playing all paylines.

Basically, you gotta play max bet every round to get the odds they promise. Of course, then you're spending big bucks each spin so you can't get into enough spins to hit anything good.

Now I remember why I tend to play in play mode...

WRONG - for a random slot anyway. It is ONLY true where, in the case of a progressive, only ythe highest numbered payline is eligible to win a progressive payout.

Rusty,

I would much rather play a truely random slot that does not take your wagering history into account.

Better keep away from Treasure Ireland and Chief's Fortune then

[Jasminebed]

Originally Posted by james01

...It doesn't make sense that they'd be weighted the way you suggest. It's too easy for a player to just cash out as soon as they hit a win....

Oh, am I the only one to succumb to RWT(Reverse Withdrawal Temptation). Or figuring that I am playing with "their money"?

I do think that the slots on reputable platforms are "random". But this does not mean that for 4,000,000 possible combinations of the patterns, there are 4,000,000 possible outcomes you will see on your computer, or a land-based slot machine. The RNG will spin BILLIONS, not MILLIONS of possible combinations and then assign a certain percent of losing/winning spins to a set of combinations less than 4,000,000 in total, and a larger than should be propotional number of the displays for losing spins are those that are "almost" wins.

It's as close to random as it is going to come. And there is a whole field of mathematics that deals with "Streak Theory". And as long as you hit streaks in a random fashion then it holds. In fact, it would be an anomaly not to hit streaks.

And despite all my knowlege, I am lured by those little wheels going around. The element of suprise. And winning streaks do happen. They do not generally last as long as losing streaks.

And I know that the casinos profit on every slot spin over the long haul. Why would they have to cheat?

Does not mean that some casinos do cheat, but IMO that is mostly through denying or delaying payouts, rather than the games themselves. The major gaming platforms seem pretty reliable in as far as randomness goes.

And I hardly ever quit right after a big win. Usually up my bet for a bit to see if it is indeed my "lucky day". Most times it is not, but sometime it is, and that is what make us slot players GAMBLERS.

Einstein said that God does not play dice with with universe. Who else would he play against?

[gerilege]

Originally Posted by james01

Additionally, it's pretty much a given that if you don't play full bet on all paylines, you are playing worse odds. This is doubly true of progressive jackpots, which almost uniformly don't give you a crack at the progressive if you're not playing all paylines.

It does not hold in general. On many slots you are getting worse odds if you play all lines, as Zoozie showed in another thread earlier for some of the Net Ent slots, and I believe it's also true for some Boss Media slots. Basically the slots which pay less for max lines are those on which you have to collect 3 symbols in a payline in order to get the bonus, and the bonus payout is dependent on the line bet, and not on the total bet, and some of the winlines have 3 common reel positions.

Other topic.

What is really interesting, that in case of the old weighted MG 5-reel slots, there are some winlines which would pay more than 100% playing them alone. The problem is, that you can't select them individually (dislike you can in case of Cleopatra for instance). You can only select line 2 and 3 after line 1 on 5reel drive or What a hoot for instance. If you play these games, you will realize that line 2 and 3 will perform better than line 1. That is because the first two positions on line 2 and 3 are also part of two other lines each, and that slots pay out for some 2-of-a-kinds.

So another idea would be to play on 5reel drive on 9 or 3 lines, then ask for a payout report for different winlines.

[lauram]

Ok i have a example they say spins are random right. Now im in the tourney
where u get spin after spin. Ok so after few spins in oldest goes well hit spin button i said i did he goes nope same spin i saw min ago. Really hmm so we watched closer in at least 20 to 30 spins i had same line up 10 times. So it seems dead spins are the same over and over how that can be if its random same lines same reel spots. We started to write down the spots they landed in.
Not sure if this helped or hurt topic.

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Rusty,
Rather than requesting a BS "independent audit" which will show you got as close as expected to 95% given the number of spins you played, request your playlogs in machinable format, such as Excel, so that you can do your OWN analyses on whatever statistic takes your fancy. If MG have nothing to hide, they would have no problem with this.

I would take this one step further and let the player community do the audit themselves. Why rely on some independent audit when you can collectively gather data, combine it into one huge play session and then analyse that? So it would be an Open Source audit conducted by the players themselves. For such a huge sample any statistical bias in the probabilities or streaks would be revealed immediately. Just recall the English Harbour case and the big role of player community in solving that.

I have a done a model template to test game fairness and natural streakiness in Blackjack but the same model can be used in any other game. The model calculates actual number of streaks, compares it to expected values and determines whether the observations match expectations closely enough. You can try out the model at

http://koti.mbnet.fi/sunu/streak_simulation.zip

Right now the model just calculates frequencies from random data. What is needed is to replace this random data with real playing data.

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by lauram

Ok i have a example they say spins are random right. Now im in the tourney
where u get spin after spin. Ok so after few spins in oldest goes well hit spin button i said i did he goes nope same spin i saw min ago. Really hmm so we watched closer in at least 20 to 30 spins i had same line up 10 times. So it seems dead spins are the same over and over how that can be if its random same lines same reel spots. We started to write down the spots they landed in.
Not sure if this helped or hurt topic.

If you could tell us which slot(s) you are talking about I think it could be valuable input!