Treasure Ireland - HELP!!

[vinylweatherman]

HELP!!!!

Could someone mind this machine for me while I get some more change

I've been on it for a while, it's going to go soon, and I don't want KK to jump onto it while I am away

 

[Matthew23]

At this stage your machine will be stolen by a woman at least 80 years old...... and you just know she'll hit the 500X plus repeat.... :lolsign:

I wish they would make better AWP slots and also AWP poker....there's a lot of potential with AWP slots, but they seem to put in the absolute minimum effort in designing these slots

 

[Nifty29]

Hey Vinyl - what do you think your return is on this one? I find it very tough to get ahead - never seen more than 50x on any of the features.

 

[Zoozie]

Hey Vinyl - what do you think your return is on this one? I find it very tough to get ahead - never seen more than 50x on any of the features.

what a surprise....

It is a rigged "Fruit Slot" with a memory. You can not win *500 before you have lost a much higher amount. Ie. when you start playing it and you hit many features, they will all really suck. But as you start digging further down in your pocket the features can be more 'generous'. Then you can start celebrating that you 'won' 500 back from the 1500 you have lost. Ooh.. What joy....

They actually also call it AWP (Amusement With Prices) not trying to hide this fact, though of course also not too informative about it. And I am sure most players do not realize what they are dealing with. It is not a 'slot' in the normal-random-independant-spins-sense But some suckers has to feed the casinos so they can run some decent promotions, so I do not complain.

 

[Matthew23]

It doesn't really make a difference if it's random or AWP, the only thing that matters is the payout percentage. Random isn't always fun...

The memory would not be on a per account basis, that would be pointless and would mean it was impossible to win until you lose. It is possible to be ahead on these slots, The reason you probably dont see many winners is because not many people play them, also the 500X can be repeated. So you either win a lot, or nothing.

To call someone a sucker because they play a 95% payout AWP, instead of a 95% random slot - is just stupid.

 

[Zoozie]

Random isn't always fun...
To call someone a sucker because they play a 95% payout AWP, instead of a 95% random slot - is just stupid.

You are right of course, it does not matter long term. But I guess we just see it different. But I do not like the fact that the AWP rules will prevent you from
getting way ahead. Slots are fun, but I believe most people play to win - ie. try to get ahead or they might as well play in fun mode.
But it also goes the other way around, which means that with AWP you will not experience 60% over a longer timespan. It will give you some
big wins to make up for some of you loss.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did get back later, with some change, and certainly no 80 year old granny on it. I expect it is too complicated. However, turning my back to get a nice amount from some "wild ladies" to boost my bankroll, I found some spotty youth had got the 500x on the cash ladder, so I just gave up, completely demoralised

I had a look in 32Red, and they had one of these too, hidden away in a corner where Pat couldn't see it from the bar, so I set to work. Completely dead Someone beat me to it, it wasn't backing, and I lost on the first couple of goes on the board.
Went to Ladbrokes, dead again

Who is doing these Is there an emptier doing the rounds? C'mon, tell me - it'll be chipped by Monday anyway, and I've got some money in Jackpot Factory, and I don't think many there would know how to play it anyway

 

[Slotster!]

Pat, earlier:

Of course, I would assume that should be a Villa shirt!

Seriously though - something I've always wondered about these online versions... Are the take/payout ratio's based on YOUR individual play, or across the casino? Or even across Microgaming? Or geographically!?? What? Which? Something else even?

My hunch is that it's casino specific... I.e If there are ten people playing "Treasure Island" at 32RED, then they're all contributing/taking from the preset payout - But I'd love to know!

 

[Matthew23]

I used to think that maybe a RNG was still used, though not in the true sense. Depending on the random number received the machine would then play a sequence of non-random events. But then again this can't be the case because there is no telling what prize the player will choose to collect or at what stage.

Would be interesting to know what system they are using.

 

[Slotster!]

I used to think that maybe a RNG was still used, though not in the true sense. Depending on the random number received the machine would then play a sequence of non-random events. But then again this can't be the case because there is no telling what prize the player will choose to collect or at what stage.

Would be interesting to know what system they are using.

It's weird, isn't it... Obviously a single machine in a pub/club/arcade/chippy whatever can simply count the amount coming in - and distribute it back out again so it meets the predetermined payout.

The more I think about it, the more I reckon it's managed at Microgaming... I.e - X slot has taken Y amount across all players = Z payback across the board?

Oh, I dunno... I'll stick to playing them.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have noticed one clue. EVERY time I play one of these for the first time, I get a warning from McAfee, and I have to allow access. This means these "Fruit Slots" are being fed from a DIFFERENT SERVER from that used for the other casino games. This could indeed indicate that they fall under central control, or at least are ring fenced from the other games.

As to whether they are managed on a per account basis or not, I am not sure. At Ruby Fortune, it was pretty lively right from the start, whereas at the others it was dead. This makes me suspect that it is not simply managed per account, but maybe per casino, per game, or even "per Microgaming central".
If it were managed on a per account basis, it would mean that players would NEVER EVER be able to win the top payouts until they had lost a fair bit first, and this would make the games pretty useless once players figured this out.

If the games are managed over a casino, game, etc, it means that they could well be worth playing, but forget all you know about online slots, and play them as you would down your local pub, or in my case, service station.

With this in mind, I am spending much of today at Prime Services, where they have SEVEN "Fruities" on the debt-bound carrigeway, and I will pop over the bridge to see what they have on the credit-bound side later on this afternoon.
I have to be careful though, this is not in the best of areas, and one has to keep one's valuables safe. Some players who come here have concentrated so hard on their play, that they have not noticed the pick-pockets who come in from Debtville in their eFord Focii, and lift their eWallets from their back pockets - indeed there have been cases where Prime Services STAFF have been accused here of doing this, and management have tightened security procedures since.
It makes me feel a little uncomfortable though, as I hate being watched by security while playing a Fruit Machine, as often this is followed by being kicked out and banned, just as I was from Brighton and our local leisure centre

 

[Nifty29]

Well I think they are fun - and I play them as such. I actually find my money can last longer on many occasions, and I can still get a thrill betting .25c.

Vinyl - I got the 'Cash Accumulator' on the Stallionaire AWP yesterday (which is the square right next to the jackpot one and its the 2nd best feature)....I still had more 'wedge' left to use, but I chose that feature and ended up with 142xbet. My question is should I have tried to hit the 1 to get the biggun?? Or would it have landed on that if it wanted me to win that?? Im not a fruitie expert, (although my choice of shirts and ties has been questionable in that past) so it would be great to get a bit of strategy from a pro.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well I think they are fun - and I play them as such. I actually find my money can last longer on many occasions, and I can still get a thrill betting .25c.

Vinyl - I got the 'Cash Accumulator' on the Stallionaire AWP yesterday (which is the square right next to the jackpot one and its the 2nd best feature)....I still had more 'wedge' left to use, but I chose that feature and ended up with 142xbet. My question is should I have tried to hit the 1 to get the biggun?? Or would it have landed on that if it wanted me to win that?? Im not a fruitie expert, (although my choice of shirts and ties has been questionable in that past) so it would be great to get a bit of strategy from a pro.

I have not looked into that one yet, but I am having a go with Treasure Ireland and GeeGees. I am looking to see if they can be "done" with any of the "methods" that have been used for the real thing.

Sadly, I have found most simple methods don't work, although GeeGees is the closest to a proper fruit machine I have found.

Methods that DON'T work, but do on "real" fruities are.

1) Always wins on third hold - Nope, ont sometimes, as might be expected.

2) Holds offered after nudge, just let them spin to bring in win - Nope, this doesn't work either, neither does holding the pair bring in the win.

Methods that MIGHT work.

1) Forcing - seems to work in "fun mode", but I have not seen the same patterns in "real" mode.

2) Blocking, yes - pretty obvious on Treasure Ireland. get "extra life" and when block hits you just throw 6,8,6,8 and get "continue yes/no" all the time from the "?" squares until you either get "continue - no" or "lose", which takes away the extra life. This is exactly what REAL fruties do to your extra life when it runs near to the block.

3) "Progressive" (in the fruity sense), YES - if you do not collect lower features, you are offered progressively more and more each time you enter the feature game before you lose. KK has found this already.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Fruity Pro 1 - Microgaming NIL



Full Cycle done

Random my a$$

 

[LOOKAWAY]

Hi did you win 500x on win free spins?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi did you win 500x on win free spins?

No, I forced out the feature "Treasure Ireland", which starts by giving the Jackpot. It then repeated a few times on smaller wins. This was followed by some "afterplay" where consecutive wins were just spun in, and then the machine went VERY dead, next board "lose" on second roll, similarly boards 2 and 3.

So, absolutely and categorically NOT RANDOM.


There were a number of predictive signs before the big hit, and these were just how REAL Fruities behave as you break through successive blocks till you reach the last one protecting the "streak pot", which is by far the hardest to break down. In Treasure Ireland, this block protects the gap between 80x and 500x+, and goes a while after "eliminate" keeps removing "Treasure Ireland", and cash shots hits either 500x or 250x. Win spins will also be hitting 30x & 50x fairly regularly at this stage, however 50x win spins falls short of even 250x on cash shots, as the average spin pays under 5x

 

[julester]

Interesting.....

...I have just completed the cycle on Apocalypse Cow which is a clone of Treausre Ireland. Refused every feature or possible win and eventually ended up with the 500x feature and a few top ups after that. The interesting thing is this.....

I signed with an accredited casino as a guest player only on TWO different accounts. At 10 a spin, it took circa 3k in losses to hit the 5k feature. When I started to 'sense' that the feature was near, I logged out and back in again with a different account and the slot was in the same 'zone'. A few spins later, I hit the feature.

I play these slots quite a bit and have always thought that the cycle is localised i.e. personal to your machine. Therefore, similar to a UK style slot, it needs to take in a certain amount of cash before a big payout although in the long run, the %'s are the same as the likes of Thunderstruck etc. However, if this was the case, surely it would take more than 3k to hit a 5k feature UNLESS the initial stage of the cycle is truly random?

On other similar slots like Chavin It Large, I have hit the feature numerous times which has then repeated 2-4 times (250x each time). In most of these instances, the initial expenditure has probably been no more than 250x.

It is possible that the cycle is global rather than local i.e. it depends on the amount being wagered accross the network at any given time. More likely is that the cycle is local but spread over all of the fruities i.e. if you spend x on slot A, it will be carried forward to slot B.

One thing is for certain, the slots are NOT, IN ANY WAY, RANDOM. It has already been pointed out that an 'extra life' is virtually always followed by a ? and then another ? and then another ? until you lose and the 'extra life' kicks in. Another example of unrandomness is that if you are chase the feature at 10 and drop the stake to 1, you will soon get the feature because the expenditure is justified.

The most interesting point of all (in my humble opinion) is that if, by logging out and in with a different account, the slot remains in the same status...what would happen if you forced the slot with the SAME account in practice play and then changed to REAL play once it starts to get hot? Logic would say that you will start from scratch but then logic would also say that 2 different guest accounts should behave differently as well. I wonder.......

One thing is for sure...be prepared to have a big bank roll for these slots but relax in the comfort that you WILL at some point hit the 'jackpot' or close...guaranteed....you just don't know when

Sorry this is so long winded and probably not that coherent if you don't play these types of slots.

J

 

[footdr]

WHAT DOES "FORCED THE SLOT" MEAN

Hi, can you explain what you mean by "forced the slot". I am not familar with all the workings of fruit slots(microgaming) any website that fully explains the features and provides hints on playing?

 

[Zoozie]

Julester and vinylweatherman - you seem to both have come to the same conclusion as me. But you have both tested way more extensively than me.

I am sure the 'cycle' (which is more a matter of $ lost than a cycle) is purely local to your account. If it was global every cycle would only last a few minutes. And also because I have ALWAYS started in the crap end of the 'cycle' whenever I play a new AWP lotto-machine.(It is not a slot!). And this makes sense of course since the casino has to make money. You can not win before you have lost.

And since it is not a cycle, you can not exploit it like the UK Fruit Machines. A cycle is something that repeats after a fixed(or close)
amount of spins. This is not the case here. This idea is supported by the fact that dumping a lot of money at higher wager and then lowering wager will result in some very lucky features, since you now have paid for the entertainment.

Also I must state that I never touch those AWP machines, I only did it for testing purpose (at lowest wager also). I do not like the fact that you can never win much (get ahead) on this slot. In the long run it does not matter compared to other slots wether they have a guaranteed 95% payout or expected 95% payout. It is the principle I do not like - and I would feel cheated when playing these suckers. Whenever I see someone post a *500 bet-size win screenshot, I cry because I know he has dumped more money that *500 bet-size to release this 'jackpot'.

 

[julester]

In the main.....

....I agree with you Zookie BUT if you look at my post there are issues that don't entirely support what you are saying....

I HAVE, on a number of occassions, hit the big or a big feature within relatively few spins. It happened this weekend on Chavin It Large. 5 a spin, circa 200 gone and the feature with a double repeat i.e. 1k. That would indicate that either :

a) your position in the initial 'cycle' (for want of a better word) is INITIALLY random or random-like. This may make sense. Of course, the casino need to make money but if you think about it logically, if you always had to spend double to hit a big feature, would you do it? I think not. You could argue that players keep chasing on 'normal' slots BUT the general difference is that big wins can and do happen randomly and therefore the 'feel' of potentially winning big on any spin is entirely different.

b) the amount spent on all of the fruit machines account for a big win on any of them i.e spend 1k on x and win 500 on y. I think this is a real possibility but wouldn't support your experience of ALWAYS starting at the beginning of the 'cycle'.

I agree that a 'global cycle' is unlikely.

Therefore, whilst I too don't like the principal of the fruties, my conclusion is that you CAN win big if you don't start the 'cycle' at the begining. My evidence would suggest that this is possible...and more than 20% of the time.

Also, it is still interesting that the 'hot' nature of the slot remains when you change accounts...does this indicate that the software recognises your computer on these slots rather than the user name? If so, how does it distinguish practice / real mode?

footdr, there will be others more placed to give you advice on your question but....

- 'forcing' a slot, to me, simply means refusing anything it offers until you hit big i.e. spin, spin, spin, never hold etc. and wait for the big one!

- I have not seen any guides on the net for AWP slots although to be honest, most of them are fairly obvious. In essence, the further around the board (or higher in the case Akra-ba-dabra - or whatever it's called), the better. All of the others Chavin It Large etc. you don't really have to do anything. When you hit the feature, you will know about it!

J

 

[vinylweatherman]

If any MG reps are reading this, they must by now be perspiring rivers


I have done further work, AND with some "real money". I played "Stallionaire" at 2, and this was completely different. For one, it CANNOT be "forced", as it always collects the feature when landing on it empties your wad. The "curry" one is a straight clone, and does the same. "Lucky Barstard" just eats and eats and I lost 500 (in FUN mode) without getting even TWO consecutive black bar wins.
I went ahead quickly on "Stallionaire" as I was forced to collect "cash accumulator". These games must surely save a little each time for the top feature, but forced collection along the way just sets back the game, just as collecting wins makes a mess of "forcing" a real Fruitie. It seems that Treasure Ireland IS unique in the download lobby, in that it is the only one where it is possible to refuse ALL features except the big one, rather than being forced into collecting something.


I am now looking out for an unsheduled MG lobby upgrade, as this might indicate we ARE onto something, and MG have done another of their quiet fixes. If they are REALLY using the local machine to store the "state" of these games for each player, this is a very dangerous short cut if they do this for REAL accounts as well as play ones, there would be an EASY manipulator, get the game about to pay, set a Windows restore point, force the feature, use windows restore, force the feature, etc..........

I have already looked into the possibility of the server being unable to tell the difference between "fun" and "real" play, in the same way that the forced state of the game is carried between different guest (fun) accounts. This is why I believe that MG reps must now be perspiring rivers, especially MiniVegas

I have, though, been able to discover that the state IS NOT PRESERVED when switching from one REAL account to another, and this MAY be a dead end, rather than the holy grail of an online "Fruit Machine Emptier".

There is still the question of losses needed to trigger the feature. I have always believed that the game has to take in slightly more than is paid out overall, so although "forcing" may sometimes make a profit, it must also make a loss. It seems that "forcing" simply alters some kind of control factor, and that each individual feature game is still driven by the RNG. Maybe the cycle starts off in "crap mode", but as more money is lost, weighting change, making it steadily more and more likely that the player will reach the top features. Dropping the stake means the weightings are recalculated based on the losses so far, and the amount that can be paid, this would mean a pretty quick jackpot for such a huge drop from 10 to 1, although the repeats would not be enough to cover the losses. I tried this in fun mode, dropping 1000 in at 2, and then dropping to 20p, at which point the feature dropped almost immediately, and repeated for an extra 500x plus a very large number of repeats of smaller wins. Despite this, by dropping from 10 to 20p, I won back only 280 of my 1000 - so this is one way these AWP games can make a fortune for the casino. Players must AVOID getting these games all excited, and then dropping the stake right down to zero out the balance, as the top feature will probably hit, but will pay far less than has been stored up at the higher stake.

 

[julester]

A quick point....

...Vinyl, that is great stuff and I will try and respond in more detail later but one thing.... On Stallionairre, you can sort of 'force' the machine. If it goes all around the board and lands on the cash acuumulator, fair enough but normally it dosen't. Taking any other feature and manipulating it to take the lowest possible win (or indeed no win on some of the features) is a way of 'forcing' it. What can happen of course is for wins to automatically spin in to compensate for this.

The real vs guest mode is a fascinating one. What still also needs to be answered is why, in some instances, you don't have to spend more to achieve the maximum feature with repeats. I have explained my theory to why this may happen in my previous posts.

J

 

[vinylweatherman]

...Vinyl, that is great stuff and I will try and respond in more detail later but one thing.... On Stallionairre, you can sort of 'force' the machine. If it goes all around the board and lands on the cash acuumulator, fair enough but normally it dosen't. Taking any other feature and manipulating it to take the lowest possible win (or indeed no win on some of the features) is a way of 'forcing' it. What can happen of course is for wins to automatically spin in to compensate for this.

The real vs guest mode is a fascinating one. What still also needs to be answered is why, in some instances, you don't have to spend more to achieve the maximum feature with repeats. I have explained my theory to why this may happen in my previous posts.

J

I have to agree, it should be possible to "force" the likes of Stallionaire, but the contribution from the lower wins would be increased, making the process far longer, and potentially less rewarding.
The fact that I quickly got cash accumulator as soon as I began play indicates these games do not always start off "dead". It is easy to spot how dead a game is, and forcing one that already has lots of life in it should guarantee a profit.
One thing that seems certain is that guest play is NOT the same as real play on these AWP games, as they are non-random, so behaviour learned through guest play does not always show up in real play.

No MG reps seem to have spotted this thread yet, or maybe they are keeping quiet, and running their own URGENT tests before they get clobbered by a tsunami of UK "Fruity Pros"

 

[Slotster!]

No MG reps seem to have spotted this thread yet, or maybe they are keeping quiet, and running their own URGENT tests before they get clobbered by a tsunami of UK "Fruity Pros"

They're not bothered, I promise.

They'll still make a massive margin overall and anyone playing to 'advantage' (if it *is* at all possible) won't even be the tiniest drop in the ocean.

 

[vinylweatherman]

They're not bothered, I promise.

They'll still make a massive margin overall and anyone playing to 'advantage' (if it *is* at all possible) won't even be the tiniest drop in the ocean.

I am sure the MiniVegas rep would disagree on that

The last MG cock-up must have cost them a Chiefs Fortune