Casino Accountability

[lojo]

I have noticed a tremendous downturn in my slot returns over the last six months. Indeed I'm now an average player i.e. loser!

There have been scads of threads and mentions of low paybacks. Anyone have a clue?

Some say all casinos turned up the house edge since the uigea

Some say MG is fixed in win lose cycles

Some say RTG casinos can adjust play after someone wins a random jackpot.

I tend to think I'm just a loser

This is no offense to our gracious host but there should be a group higher than accredited, it should be accounted and verified.

Don't get me wrong. i would totally trust the Meister to administer this on a small scale as opposed to the regulatory agencies currently working and proposed. All we need is trust.
(who can sort the regulations? Spear and I have argued nitpicks of nevada law on forum that lawyers would be loathe to argue)

I'm afraid gaming is possibly going from bad to worse for US players. You think the rogue cowboytown casinos are bad? Wait until the 'bonafide' special interests control all online gambling here. You won't have any one to bitch to and probably not a pot to piss in if you play. And if Bryan tries to assert, he will be 'rogued'.

Pisser, in't it.

What do I want to see?

Observable, repeatable, and verifiable audits of casinos.

 

[jan.strydom]

accountability

not sure the casinos turned the key as i have been around for awhile and payouts are very much the same - in fact i thought the payouts are higher.

sorry i think you're a little short on luck

I also believe that all big online groups would gladly adhere to regulation!!!

 

[kakata]

not sure the casinos turned the key as i have been around for awhile and payouts are very much the same - in fact i thought the payouts are higher.

sorry i think you're a little short on luck

I also believe that all big online groups would gladly adhere to regulation!!!

well hesnt the only one short on luck, same as some 20 more members...........could that be you are taking away from us all the available luck?
@lojo
at moment Im having better time at Bodog.....at least more playing time.

 

[lojo]

not sure the casinos turned the key as i have been around for awhile and payouts are very much the same - in fact i thought the payouts are higher.

sorry i think you're a little short on luck

I also believe that all big online groups would gladly adhere to regulation!!!

Indeed. I'm a little short on mojo. But even at your level of involvement, can you tell us, and assure us, that there is nothing funky?

And if you could, why would we believe you?

PWC was acceptable for a time, but when the PBLLLT hit the fan, where did they run? We have Shackleford, but not. We have the guy who followed him up but how many houses can he do? One ot two here so far, I think.

Regulation is not the answer unless the regulators (anybody see the size of that chicken?) are accountable..

Observable, verifyable and repeatable.

 

[lojo]

@lojo
at moment Im having better time at Bodog.....at least more playing time.

Good on ya Ka I'd keep up the .2 and .4 bets on RTG for now (slots).
I guess we can say almost anything we want and they'll have to eat it until they answer with audits.

I've rolled ten $100 in a row tonight and only lost that, maybe 2000 rolls in all .2 to $100

 

[phynqster]

From people I have talked too, every thing is the same, but far fewer players. Need to remember that if a slot is programed to hit every so often depending on how much has been played into it, and there is not much being bet into it, than the randomness is far less.

 

[lojo]

From people I have talked too, every thing is the same, but far fewer players. Need to remember that if a slot is programed to hit every so often depending on how much has been played into it, and there is not much being bet into it, than the randomness is far less.

Everything is the same, P. Nobody is producing audited returns for the player in real time (of RTG/MG) and the others can cough up anytime now. (I'll Give Rival about fifteen minutes because they've been around for a while and GV.. never mind.. and 3Dice a year at best)

We need independant auditing, independant of governments or industry 'owings'. I think we are in the right place, I'm just saying.

 

[jan.strydom]

ya - the regulation thing!!! i actually just said that the gaming companies are ok to be regulated - but not sure by whom - lol

now most if not all slots today are all controlled by random generators which are completely sealed because if they were adjustable by the gaming software then certainly the slots could be hacked - now this would kill an on line house in ten minutes. so my point - they don't dare. luck is the key!! as I have over many years witnessed this streak - it surely comes and goes.

 

[lojo]

Thank you Jan.

I didn't mean to challenge you so on my first reply, please, enlighten us or add opinion. You will find me to be a wild card; I deal with important issues and I play lightly, no offense. I wish you a warm welcome here and thank you for jumping right into media rez.

 

[jan.strydom]

no problem - slots remain the game of choice no matter where with the progressives offering a real once off chance to make it big - now, it remains a game of entertainment and thrill but never a game of skill - lady luck as I see it.

 

[reda]

i agree the rtg slots in my opinion has not paid the same in over a year for me. i have played pretty regular. i can barely get my account over a 100.00 after i dep about 50.00. and im working hard to hang in there. i may last a few hrs if im lucky. and im not a sore loser but after a while it does get old. maybe if i would stop playing after i win a few dollars and continue later i might could win more, but i cant seem to get ahead to really have bragging rights, my money will reach a tiny peak and then its downhill until im broke again. and youd think when your almost broke you might have a turnaround but usually it doesnt happen for me.

 

[kakata]

youd think when your almost broke you might have a turnaround but usually it doesnt happen for me.



Neither for me............and I think for nobody does.
Not at this moment on any RTG......IMO

 

[lojo]

Damn Jan, you have away with words. I was a Madman (propaganda person) for seven years, yip marketer. But it was smalltime newspapers with no focus.

Here we are on CasinoMeister and He or the denizens will have to douche me for asking the questions, and pushing the point.

I'm honored you chose to get in the fray with me. You will find wonderful people here.

What is your best idea for casino accountability?

 

[lojo]

I am still looking for an auditor to stand up.

Bryan must know by now why I rendered this in the forum, rather than 'ask the casinomeister' it is because I didn't want to mount a direct challenge to him. I am directly challenging every platform to produce audited results. Period.

 

[mikepipe]

ok, thanks, but the question - coming up from another thread is: what is the average turnover of an average casino.
we dont have an iidea, which wins really influuence the bottom line and which dont.
Is 10 k much for an average casino???

 

[lojo]

I just burned through 3300 on itty bitsy bets. The math is not our business if it can't be verified< MIke. I am throwing piss to the wind and something is up. If it ain't, let them prove it. Another 10k period, if the tide doesn't change I will quit gaming and spend my energy elsewhere.

These are the days.

You have been a dear friend here.

 

[lojo]

And we are back to the point. Which casinos SUBMIT to what auditors and why. And why not. This is the crux, the nexus, the apex, the point.

Fex the gumments, assert. THEY WILL ADAPT TO YOUR STANDARDS.

I'm of the mind that there is far more going on behind the scenes than even the most paranoid could imagine.

 

[mikepipe]

thanks lojo,

lets find place and time to have some drinks and discuss thems, which have more importance.
I am SURE , you are a very interesting person, to talk with.
So - if yo come to meisterland (which is bavaria in germany), give me a hint.

But:
What about a members meeting - somewhere in the middle - Engerland or something like that?
Wouldnt that be a great idea?

 

[lojo]

thanks lojo,

lets find place and time to have some drinks and discuss thems, which have more importance.
I am SURE , you are a very interesting person, to talk with.
So - if yo come to meisterland (which is bavaria in germany), give me a hint.

But:
What about a members meeting - somewhere in the middle - Engerland or something like that?
Wouldnt that be a great idea?

That would be wonderful Mike. How about helsinki or brussels (my "friends" in barcelona said ' I didn't know there was a difference between friendship and business' as they scoured me) and I've only ever been burned by gmbh's in the us. Yeah, London sounds fine I can get there cheap, getting home is another story

Now back on topic.

edit: i would enjoy that beer or mead with you.

 

[mikepipe]

what a PERFECT (steed style
1000 th post

i d like the beer please!

 

[lojo]

Wooo hooo

That is your 10x10x10

WOOOOHOOO!

Congrats pipermike. I owe you a bier. Will chamey do? Name it.

 

[oldandboring40]

lojo, i agree with you 100 percent. over the last six months things have changed. you dont stand a chance with mg casinos. either you lose from the start or you win a little then lose it all. i have actually stopped playing. whats the point when the same results occur 95 percent of the time

 

[lojo]

lojo, i agree with you 100 percent. over the last six months things have changed. you dont stand a chance with mg casinos. either you lose from the start or you win a little then lose it all. i have actually stopped playing. whats the point when the same results occur 95 percent of the time

I'd be happy with 75% verified

 

[aka23]

I am still looking for an auditor to stand up.

Bryan must know by now why I rendered this in the forum, rather than 'ask the casinomeister' it is because I didn't want to mount a direct challenge to him. I am directly challenging every platform to produce audited results. Period.

Audited results are out there for quite a few of the softwares. A summary based mostly on memory is below:

Microgaming -- Most casinos have monthly payout audit data. Done by PWC or eCOGRA

Playtech -- Some casinos have monthly payout audit data. For example Technical Systems Testing with Kiwi.

Real Time Gaming -- A minority of have monthly payout audit data. Given the operator control over payouts, this would be particularly useful.

Crytologic -- Intercasino has PWC audit data. Some (most?) others do as well.

Boss Media -- PWC audit data is available for some casinos.

Rival -- Expected payouts are in help files. I haven't seen audit data.

Chartwell -- I haven't seen anything

Wagerworks -- Expected payouts are listed in games. I haven't seen audit data.

Grand Virtual -- Technical Systems Testing audit data is available for most (all?) casinos

 

[lojo]

I'm about to condemn RTG in my book

$3k tonight I'm at 713 now .2, .4 constant. No more than 15 $100 throws, 3 twenties, one ten and fifty fives. no good. This kind of play used to make cabbage. ergg

It better not do what Rusty said about the near bottom, pooch up just t fuck ya.

This is 3k it is almost gone.

i did what Mike031 said for thousand of rolls, I did what any one would do and threw a few hundreds, this pisses me off.

RTG has about fifteen minutes to redeem itself to me.
What I'm gonna drop ten or twenty in MG to compare? Get a clue 5 maybe at most but I hate to give it back, I was a winner now I am a loser.

Lojo no happy be loser, lojo quit when dollar no good for fun no more.

Guaran-freakin-teed

 

[KasinoKing]

From people I have talked too, every thing is the same, but far fewer players. Need to remember that if a slot is programed to hit every so often depending on how much has been played into it, and there is not much being bet into it, than the randomness is far less.

I sincerely hope you are only talking about Random Jackpots here!

I have noticed a tremendous downturn in my slot returns over the last six months. Indeed I'm now an average player i.e. loser!

There have been scads of threads and mentions of low paybacks. Anyone have a clue?

Some say all casinos turned up the house edge since the uigea

Some say MG is fixed in win lose cycles...

I agree there do seem to be these win/lose cycles. Some days everything hits, others the slots are dead as door-posts. It really does feel like someone behind the scenes is flicking a big win/lose switch.
But at the end of the day, as someone who wins more than he loses I have to assume that it is all just luck. Otherwise surely they wouldn't 'let me win' so much...(?)

In July I only played at 3 MG's, 100% low-rolling slots play; I lost badly at one (diabolical Tomb Raider sessions totaling 668 spins with NO free-spins), but won handsomely at the other 2... total profit between the 3 casinos = $884.

 

[lojo]

I sincerely hope you are only talking about Random Jackpots here!


I agree there do seem to be these win/lose cycles. Some days everything hits, others the slots are dead as door-posts. It really does feel like someone behind the scenes is flicking a big win/lose switch.
But at the end of the day, as someone who wins more than he loses I have to assume that it is all just luck. Otherwise surely they wouldn't 'let me win' so much...(?)

In July I only played at 3 MG's, 100% low-rolling slots play; I lost badly at one (diabolical Tomb Raider sessions totaling 668 spins with NO free-spins), but won handsomely at the other 2... total profit between the 3 casinos = $884.

Damn bra, keep your chin up. I'm going right up in their nickers. Someone has to be fearless. So what if I lost 3k tonight (damn thats six over there) and i only play a hundred a week normally, I could afford it, it was my balance, I'm a regular player now (could have been sweet though, could have made a fortune) I don't have any profit left so I have to concede for now. i have to build it back from pennies if i can I am not playing again, on land or anywhere until i can move my money into and out of casinos that I can trust, at will. You know my rap.

Until they show us they are not fixed, I probably won't play any more. But I will speak out and call for audits and verification online.

And for the casual observer, know this, I have never been below zero moneywise gambling. it is a wake up call for me. No more cocky, I'm freaking broke. $
as of 2:15 MST i no longer gamble with profits. DAMN!!!

 

[lojo]

Audited results are out there for quite a few of the softwares. A summary based mostly on memory is below:

Microgaming -- Most casinos have monthly payout audit data. Done by PWC or eCOGRA

Playtech -- Some casinos have monthly payout audit data. For example Technical Systems Testing with Kiwi.

Real Time Gaming -- A minority of have monthly payout audit data. Given the operator control over payouts, this would be particularly useful.

Crytologic -- Intercasino has PWC audit data. Some (most?) others do as well.

Boss Media -- PWC audit data is available for some casinos.

Rival -- Expected payouts are in help files. I haven't seen audit data.

Chartwell -- I haven't seen anything

Wagerworks -- Expected payouts are listed in games. I haven't seen audit data.

Grand Virtual -- Technical Systems Testing audit data is available for most (all?) casinos

Show me.

MG: Who audits the auditors. i gave up on PWC when they hid their pages @2007 do you have new info?

RTG: what did you say? this is a joke

Rival? I trust that more. But how is it interpretted?

GV? Who audits TST?

I can't be placated by this AKA, there is something stinky at RTG (not cuz i lost my ass tonight, I lost it after I started this thread)

Gods and demigods handing down knowledge (Ed Ware etc) are voices of the past, and no more viable as a source than Zaqwert (no dis zach) to tell us of what is going on when we pull a slot.

A greater mind or politic than me is needed to assure the player. Will you take the energy you put into bonus and extend it to 'promoting' real time audits of games?
Could you be trusted to do that? eschew your profit motive and it may be possible.
Promoting the concept, that's all i would ask. Clarity, accountabily, integrity. Observable, repeatable, and verifiable.

Might be a fun frontier.


Regards,

 

[kakata]

Some days everything hits,


well I play everyday, and lately( few months) I cant find THOSE days you mention....lol

 

[AudiManinBoro]

Personally I dont think RTG have that many players left on average what with the Us problem and all. Ive said it before and ill say it again, a casino needs to make money before they can give money, cant see how they can do that if they have very few customers.

 

[kakata]

Personally I dont think RTG have that many players left on average what with the Us problem and all. Ive said it before and ill say it again, a casino needs to make money before they can give money, cant see how they can do that if they have very few customers.

I think Bodog is one of the few that can still count on a good number of players.
If you look at the speed of theyr RJ. None of the others, I use to play at, has the same velocity.
Actually sometime Ive had the impression I was the only one playing....lol

 

[jan.strydom]

Damn Jan, you have away with words. I was a Madman (propaganda person) for seven years, yip marketer. But it was smalltime newspapers with no focus.

Here we are on CasinoMeister and He or the denizens will have to douche me for asking the questions, and pushing the point.

I'm honored you chose to get in the fray with me. You will find wonderful people here.

What is your best idea for casino accountability?

Thanks Lojo

glad to meet all. also honored.

now the best idea for on line accountability is licensing, tax accountability, why?? then the figures will be accurate, payouts real because most people and companies don't like to pay tax and therefore make sure that they show a small profit not to pay so much tax - fact!!

now negative talk creates a negative environment and this relates to negative rewards - this is the way it works - stay positive and things become more so - mix with the negatives and you will certainly spiral down - sorry but true. positive people = positive results!!

 

[Mike031]

I think Bodog is one of the few that can still count on a good number of players.
If you look at the speed of theyr RJ. None of the others, I use to play at, has the same velocity.

That's right and this is, why it's also very hard, to win any RJ there, because i've played now about 10 times on a slot so long up to the RJ was hitted, but no chance for me

At InetBet i tried it only my first two times and i hit them all, but it was certainly only a very good luck *lol*

 

[AudiManinBoro]

I think Bodog is one of the few that can still count on a good number of players.
If you look at the speed of theyr RJ. None of the others, I use to play at, has the same velocity.
Actually sometime Ive had the impression I was the only one playing....lol

Lol Kakata I know what you mean. Im used to the speed of whch the Mg progressives go up by so much so that the first time i played at a RTG casino I thought my screen was frozen lol I was like do these pj totals actually ever change???

 

[lojo]

Audited results are out there for quite a few of the softwares...
Real Time Gaming -- A minority of have monthly payout audit data. Given the operator control over payouts, this would be particularly useful.

Indeed, it would. An assured level and timescape would be nice too. If the volume is x per x I'd like to see that published platform-wide and casino by casino. I certainly am not looking at it as an advantage/probability player, though it could be taken advantage of it it weren't staggered a week or so back.

Thanks for you input and knowledge aka, I appreciate it

 

[dynamitewoman]

Mr. Strydom.
It would indeed be a pleasant thought to beleive that most major gaming sites would welcome regulation, but with the free for all allowed by some jurisdictions, it is highly improbable. To have one force monitoring and guiding the operations of the gaming industry( regardless of whom it is) would be an overwhelming task if they had to satisy the particulars of each registered site or group of affiliate game sites. In all acuality the sites have pretty much gained control of the edge with the rules they alone have masterminded and implemented without any external arbitrator or mediator, leaving the depositor to accept the "last word" mandate of every site that I have thus encountered.
The Gambling commission of the UK has taken the bull by the horns and will be presiding over all online UK gaming when September rolls around, with very specific rules and codes of conduct that will regulate sites with uniform and standard applications that have consequences for non-compliance.
Can sites that make the lions share of their gaming profits from the United States withstand the same kind of regulation and monitoring? Will they really be willing to give up the final say and allow resolution of disputes and discrepancies by an unbiased and authorized agency?
I know what I think,,how about you?

 

[chuchu59]

Mr. Strydom.
It would indeed be a pleasant thought to beleive that most major gaming sites would welcome regulation, but with the free for all allowed by some jurisdictions, it is highly improbable. To have one force monitoring and guiding the operations of the gaming industry( regardless of whom it is) would be an overwhelming task if they had to satisy the particulars of each registered site or group of affiliate game sites. In all acuality the sites have pretty much gained control of the edge with the rules they alone have masterminded and implemented without any external arbitrator or mediator, leaving the depositor to accept the "last word" mandate of every site that I have thus encountered.
The Gambling commission of the UK has taken the bull by the horns and will be presiding over all online UK gaming when September rolls around, with very specific rules and codes of conduct that will regulate sites with uniform and standard applications that have consequences for non-compliance.
Can sites that make the lions share of their gaming profits from the United States withstand the same kind of regulation and monitoring? Will they really be willing to give up the final say and allow resolution of disputes and discrepancies by an unbiased and authorized agency?
I know what I think,,how about you?

The answer to your question would be yes. The casinos which are well-managed and who are here for the long haul would welcome the regulation and monitoring with open arms as this would effectively weed out the rogues or raise the cost operations of their non-responsive competitors. With a larger market share, the profits earned would more than compensate them for their trouble. It all boils down to survival of the fittest. Ah, if only we could get the casinos to vote on this subject. hehe!

 

[dynamitewoman]

regulation

Chuchu..Thanks for your response. I see that you are optimistic about any iminent regulation being imposed and implemented on net gaming sites.
I, however am a bit more reluctant to beleive that sites will easily give up the common bottom line rule they ALL share, that being the brazen declaration that they are the final arbitors and will have the final say regarding any and all disputes or complaints with NO EXCEPTIONS.
That rule alone is an "inbred" expression of contempt for external monitoring or interference. As far as weeding out the rogue or downright scam sites, some may fall into the obscurity of cyberspace, but online gambling is a site profit venture and that is being accomplished already, isnt it? The standard operating procedures are working well for the site owners and affiliates as well it should with them being able to create their own provisional and optional mandates within the confines of site domain ownership. Merely by signing up at a site one must agree to abide by whatever rules are displayed and also agree to accept any rules that they may enact in the next minute, without prior notice ( in many cases).
I am trying to envision a regulatory comission offering sites the same ideology of blind acceptance and total submission in order to conduct a profitable business. My way or the highway principle...no mediation, no third party arbitration, no recourse! This is what paying depositors have now for the most part.
I see no site owners or corporations pushing for regulation. Granted, some may see the long term benefits of employing honest and audited methods of extracting your funds to ensure longevity and player acquisition, but it will have to be thrust upon them as a new experience in honor and fair play.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Chuchu..Thanks for your response. I see that you are optimistic about any iminent regulation being imposed and implemented on net gaming sites.
I, however am a bit more reluctant to beleive that sites will easily give up the common bottom line rule they ALL share, that being the brazen declaration that they are the final arbitors and will have the final say regarding any and all disputes or complaints with NO EXCEPTIONS.
That rule alone is an "inbred" expression of contempt for external monitoring or interference. As far as weeding out the rogue or downright scam sites, some may fall into the obscurity of cyberspace, but online gambling is a site profit venture and that is being accomplished already, isnt it? The standard operating procedures are working well for the site owners and affiliates as well it should with them being able to create their own provisional and optional mandates within the confines of site domain ownership. Merely by signing up at a site one must agree to abide by whatever rules are displayed and also agree to accept any rules that they may enact in the next minute, without prior notice ( in many cases).
I am trying to envision a regulatory comission offering sites the same ideology of blind acceptance and total submission in order to conduct a profitable business. My way or the highway principle...no mediation, no third party arbitration, no recourse! This is what paying depositors have now for the most part.
I see no site owners or corporations pushing for regulation. Granted, some may see the long term benefits of employing honest and audited methods of extracting your funds to ensure longevity and player acquisition, but it will have to be thrust upon them as a new experience in honor and fair play.

Good posts by both you and CC. Interesting schools of thought