SLOT PLAYERS REVOLT!

[Rusty]

Why are slots players treated like 2nd class gamblers?

I mean if your passion is VP then you are playing against about a 2% house edge and the same goes for roulette and some other games so why do slots player have to play against a much higher house edge?
It would be very easy for software providers/Casinos to make their slots 97or 98% by simply adjusting the paytables or making the bonus rounds a litle more generous.

The slots need not be changed,So why not?
Is it just discrimination? Is it simply greed?
Can any Casino operator give me and every other slot player a valid reason why returns should be lower than on other games?

After all how much do you wager in a Year on slots (wager not deposit)?
If it is just $20,000 then just a 5% improvement on return would mean that you got an extra $1000 worth of play!
Think about it, $1000 worth of extra chances to hit a big win or just simply sitting in your account.

When the UK licensed Casinos appear in September they will have to clearly state the percentage payout of each game and I urge all slot players to boycott any slots that are less than 96%.
Send an email to your Casino stating your intentions and why and believe me if enough players take a stand we will get better payout percentages.

There is still time for a leading Casino to take the lead and turn a negative into a possitive. Simply adjust their slot payout % and advertise that their slots are the highest paying on the internet 96%+

If not then slot players you know what to do. Spread the word!

[soflat]

I think it is just determined by the market. Slot players are willing to pay the high house edge, so the casinos are happy to set them that way.

[Rusty]

I think it is just determined by the market. Slot players are willing to pay the high house edge, so the casinos are happy to set them that way.

Exactly, time for change!

[aka23]

Why are slots players treated like 2nd class gamblers?

I mean if your passion is VP then you are playing against about a 2% house edge and the same goes for roulette and some other games so why do slots player have to play against a much higher house edge?

Online VP usually has a house edge <2% with optimal strategy. If you look around, you can even find a few VP games with a player advantage. In contrast, American Roulette has a house edge of 5.26%, as high as typical online slots.

As another player pointed out, the simple reason why slots have a higher house edge than most casinos games is that casinos can have a higher house edge. When much of the payout is in rare big wins, small changes in house edge are not as noticeable. A state lottery is an extreme example. Furthermore, slots are the only class of casino game where players cannot easily compute the house edge. If a Video Poker payout is reduced, many players will know before they start the game. If a slot payout is reduced, players will not notice the difference until wagering a good amount, and some players will never notice the change. Another reason for the higher house edge is having no strategy decisions. The overall payout for VP is often significantly less than the house edge payout since many players do not use optimal strategy. Casinos can afford to reduce the house edge more, if players who use non-optimal strategy pull down the overall payout. However, with slots there are rarely strategy decisions that have a large impact on payout.

When the UK licensed Casinos appear in September they will have to clearly state the percentage payout of each game and I urge all slot players to boycott any slots that are less than 96%.
Send an email to your Casino stating your intentions and why and believe me if enough players take a stand we will get better payout percentages.

There is still time for a leading Casino to take the lead and turn a negative into a possitive. Simply adjust their slot payout % and advertise that their slots are the highest paying on the internet 96%+

Most of the larger SWs offer specific slots that payout >96%. Typical payout ranges from 94-97%. Wagerworks and Rival list the payout of their slots, so you can determine which payout >96%. I recall one game that pays out >98%. I wish other softwares would take this approach and list the expected payout for all of their games.

[saladfingers]

Great idea and totally valid points - but would any one Microgaming casino be able to do this on its own? As I understand it from reading this forum, individual MG casinos can't adjust slot odds - they're centrally controlled. Is that right?

[vinylweatherman]

Great idea and totally valid points - but would any one Microgaming casino be able to do this on its own? As I understand it from reading this forum, individual MG casinos can't adjust slot odds - they're centrally controlled. Is that right?

All individual MG slot games have the same long term payout wherever played. MG CAN give exact expected figures for each slot, they choose not to release the information. They will have calculated these figures before releasing each game. It is possible to calculate the payout through Zoozie's MG slot simulator, pretty exactly where only free spins and multipliers are involved. Slots with pick bonuses are more difficult due to not knowing the probabilities of specific pick awards.

RTG certainly CAN compete in this way, as operators can tweak the games themselves. Recent postings have suggested that this "tweaking" can go as far as "cheating".

[gfkostas]

When the UK licensed Casinos appear in September they will have to clearly state the percentage payout of each game and I urge all slot players to boycott any slots that are less than 96%.

Talking about land based casinos i never seen a slot in the uk that has a 90%+ pay out. They all say: This slots payout is a minimum of 80%. They never state the maximum though. It would seem that most gamblers are so dumb that even if you give them a single deck blackjack with the best rules, still they will continue losing their money. Online of course the case is different.....

[silkprint]

I play slots about 90% of the time and you are so right !

[Slotster!]

Talking about land based casinos i never seen a slot in the uk that has a 90%+ pay out.

The new £500 five reelers are 50p = 90% £1 = 92% £2 = 94%.

I've done reasonably well off these, and they play very much like their Vegas/online equivalents. We'll see a shift towards these over here I think, as finallly our industry has woken up and realised that people will stake (and lose!) more, if the potential to one day win big is there.

They're random too as far as the reels are concerned, but the features can still be exploited by the likes of Vinyl and the 'emptying' crew!

Gone are the days of the 2p nudger!

[vinylweatherman]

The new £500 five reelers are 50p = 90% £1 = 92% £2 = 94%.

I've done reasonably well off these, and they play very much like their Vegas/online equivalents. We'll see a shift towards these over here I think, as finallly our industry has woken up and realised that people will stake (and lose!) more, if the potential to one day win big is there.

They're random too as far as the reels are concerned, but the features can still be exploited by the likes of Vinyl and the 'emptying' crew!

Gone are the days of the 2p nudger!

They're not actually, most use an internal "bingo" game to determine the result of each wager, and the reel positions are simply made up to display the win as though from a multi-line slot.
A few have been exploited, but through software bugs rather than the usual Fruit Machine methods. They DO seem to exhibit streak behaviour, but it is all in our minds and we could not possibly profit from following trends in such random games could we Online games ALSO exhibit streaky behaviour, and I am sure that a sequence of spins is enough to gauge the "mood" of the likes of Thunderstruck & Munchkins - just look at how scatters fall, it's easy (not 100% reliable though, sometimes a cycle fails, just lile a monsoon, this is when it goes those long 500+ spins without a bonus, a cycle or two has been skipped).

There are still some "2p nudgers" about, and they can still be emptied