Bonus -- advantage play -- etc.

[EasyRhino]

ER, does Max Rubin still do the promo relations for Barona(sp) because he welcomes counters with good reasons.

I haven't seen Max involved in any promos, I get the impression that he's not as involved as he was in the casino's early days (I wasn't ever there in the early days, though). They still have the Blackjack Hall of Fame (dedicated to create card counters and cheating technology) on display near the entrance. It's not all puppies and roses for players though, just recently I'm spotted a pit critter on the phone to upstairs while looking in my direction with a grim expression, it felt like "the call".

I'm pretty spooked about burning myself out of all my local joints right now. Although my two career backoffs have both been very civil.

For full disclosure,I did retain the services of Bob Nersesian pursuant to several incidents that occured at the Venetian in 2005.

Wow, is (was) the Venetian sweaty?

in my opinion the bonuses are for suckers .i was getting a 400% bonus with 30x

Yes, it's those types of bonuses that are murder on the recreational player (at least one who wants a chance to cash out). Straight flat-betting of the bonus will very likely result in losses greater than whatever your deposit was. If you want to make money on them, you have to play them in a very counter-intuitive way, very aggressively until you get to a high balance, and then grind it out will smaller bets. Who actually gambles like this?

But to be honest, figuring out how the attack ridiculously complicated bonii is the most fun part of bonus-hustling to me. Figuring out the optimum game, deposit, and bet size can sometimes take longer than the play itself (especially if you bust out quick).

[oldtrvlagt]

Here is a question...you sign up with one casino and decide I'll play the free spins and see what happens. You lose, you try another in the "group" and you win a little. You play until your eyes are bleary and still cashout a small amount. You try a different one in the "group" (all the while using the same email, following the rules, etc., etc.). You are acruing loyalty points and just for joining this casino gives you $10 (which is nothing), you lose and decide I'll go to casino #4 on the list and see if I can do better over there. You deposit and they give you loyalty points for signing up (BUT, you did NOT ask for them), they just automatically give them to you. You play agin until your brain is fried and by gosh on that $.90 spin on Thunderstruck you hit $450 so now you are ahead, and you cashout. Is it my fault I won? No, I don't think so. I got lucky..but now I have had my "loyalty" points suspended because somehow in their warped logic I have abused bonuses. I don't like bonuses..used to but got tired of playing 5 million spins in RTG casinos to cashout $500. Sorry this is so long but I'm venting and the bonuses should go where the sun doesn't shine.

[Mike031]

got tired of playing 5 million spins in RTG casinos to cashout $500.

On which RTGs did you play and with which bet?

Okay, with a deposit of $ 20.- and a bet size of only $ 0,20.- it's very logical, that you can't cashout $ 500.-, expect you win a Jackpot, than it's certainly possible

[oldtrvlagt]

$1.00 a spin, Prism, Club Player and Cirrus. Been paid in the past by all (sometimes a little coaxing, nagging,etc. you get the picture..someone was on vacation, it was a holiday, the dog died,etc.) 10x max cashout on deposit amount so after playthrough (hours and hours) I've been lucky. Haven't won anything in a year and gave them all up about 6 months ago after hitting 5 Achilles in a row ($500 win) getting up to $950 and never being able to cashout a dime.

[Mike031]

Maybe you should try more seriously RTGs?

Cirrus is actually not an accredited casino, as i know

But certainly we all must have enough luck, because i could say the same thing about MG Casinos.

The last days i'd never won anything on them, i played on different MG Casinos and on everyone i lost my € 100.- within 5-10 minutes with a € 1.- bet and between 200-250 spins without any bonus round, so i must say, that i'd never luck in this one.

But at the other side, i had 1 week before great luck with MG Casinos, because i deposited on 5 different Casinos only € 50.- and i'd won on every one more then 2x - 5x the deposit, so it was a lucky day for me

[lojo]

card counters get tossed from casinos. so do alleged "abusers" of online casino bonuses.

the difference is, the casino offered you the advantage by giving a profitable bonus, so it is not your fault you're playing at a positive expectation.

so the two imo are not entirely the same. but i don't think you are speaking to the legitimacy of either type of play. perhaps you are saying that one must tread very lightly to be able to get away with either practice?

Yeah, i guess a bonus artist would have to tread lightly, but i also meant that if I'm going to use bonus play as a strategy I better know the terms and conditions as well as counter knows his numbers, or I have no bitch when things don't work out for me.

A casino is never going to go broke from card counting and probably never from bonus chasing either.

[lojo]

....

Of course, getting 86'd from either place is not the desired income. And if I was smoother about it, I'd still be allowed to play at more joints. Get burned out of enough places, and you're a dinosaur.

Desired income, outcome

I don't have the balls for counting cards, I've read the stories about a downtown joint and 'Stanford Wong's' interview in the Mercury not to mention stories I've heard. I'd probably tap my fingers or mumble the numbers and get caught anyway

To me, card counting is different than 'syndicated' bonus hustling. It's probably as old as the game.
I'm not trying to pass any moral judgement on bonus hustling, but I do think there are circumstances when it just isn't right, and I can see where a casino who gets a lot of it could see it as an orchestrated attack.

I'm trying to recall my motivations when I used quite a few bonuses.... nope, I didn't do it to extend my fun time, I did it to make money. Say with tombraider i could rarely hit the free spins at $3.75 a throw on my budegeted weekly bankroll, but when I started taking 100% and better sign up bonuses I usually could, so I did.

I've never been burned by a casino so my perception might be different than someone who has been. I've even been paid when I hit almost a grand on a no-deposit bonus, just lucky sometimes i guess.

[lojo]

in my opinion the bonuses are for suckers .i was getting a 400% bonus with 30x playthru out of 6 100 $ deposits i met the requirement once cashedout 500 not realizing the bonus is noncashable so after 30 plus hrs of play i havent recieved the payout yet but im expecting 90$ after they take the 400 $ bonus and the 10$ echeck fee.i finaly came to my senses started taking no bonus so if i hit early the winnings are mine to withdraw im not locked into some ridiculous playthrough number. since i stopped taking bonuses ive turned 600 into 1500 playing slots at 1$ a spin

I'm with ya. For the most part I don't touch them anymore. There is one casino I'm playing at with large bonuses and max cashouts, but I'm only dabbling minimum deposits for now. If I make a crushing win in the next deposit or two I'll stop using coupons altogether there.

I'll probably do one more in each good group that allows multiples across the group, because the terms are mostly good, and easy to undersand, but mostly I just want to lay my money down and win or lose... okay I just want to win

[lojo]

$1.00 a spin, Prism, Club Player and Cirrus. Been paid in the past by all (sometimes a little coaxing, nagging,etc. you get the picture..someone was on vacation, it was a holiday, the dog died,etc.) 10x max cashout on deposit amount so after playthrough (hours and hours) I've been lucky. Haven't won anything in a year and gave them all up about 6 months ago after hitting 5 Achilles in a row ($500 win) getting up to $950 and never being able to cashout a dime.

Why weren't you able to cash out?

[NASHVEGAS]

A casino is never going to go broke from card counting and probably never from bonus chasing either.

Exactly, bonus abuse(fraud may be a different issue but in most cases it is simply poor operations management) as well as B&M casino abuse of not only advantage players but casino patron winners((99.9% fall into the other category and thus have no idea of what the first line in Nersesian's book means as it reads "Nevada hates you")) also is nothing more than 100% mistreatment of players/patrons. At least the Nevada Supreme Courts have commenced recognizing a patrons constitutional rights in the last few years. Who recognizes an online player's rights?????

Stanford is very familiar with Mr.Nersesian and can probably state my point in a better fashion