Thoughts on Cashback?

[spearmaster]

I really don't see how this hurts the casino. I mean, the fact that you win now and then is what makes you play, thus a necessary part of the casinos business. It's like - even when you win... they win.

If this were to happen in a land-based casino, you cost the casino time and resources and potentially cash for them to give you a second crack. That seat could instead be occupied by another player.

Online - every bet has a cost. For example, the free $20 you just got for losing $100, let's say you manage to run it through 10x before losing it.

You've just cost the casino:

* Royalties to be paid to software manufacturer (except when provider allows bonuses to be removed from calculations, and as far as I know this is NOT the norm)
* Bandwidth (not every casino has fixed bandwidth charges)
* Potentially, fees associated with paying out your winnings
* Obviously, if you win, more money than they had planned on giving you
* If a player wins, he then goes to another casino because he knows he won't get cash back for the rest of the month, or until he loses money again. Instead, he reinvests in another casino, perhaps to claim a bonus, or maybe to get yet another cash back on loss possibility.

There are more costs than just those above - but suffice it to say that it costs the casino money to give you cash back just like that.

With loyalty, it's a fixed cost that they can manage - always 1% or 2% on Tuesdays and 3% on Wednesdays (or whatever). It still costs them the same as above - but the amount will be smaller, more spread out over time, and keeps both losers AND winners happy.

Except of course if the player wins, he doesn't take the money elsewhere - he knows he's being treated well at his favorite casino and he's much less inclined to go elsewhere.

I think that is the most important thing of all.

[aka23]

Cash back bonuses are better than nothing, but I'd much rather receive other types of bonuses such as the weekly Clearplay matches given by Grand Prive & Villento, the bonus on all deposits with Golden Riviera & Vegas Partner, or the cashable monthly match with Intercasino & 32 Red. I do not want a bonus that requires me to lose. Preferred bonus type relates to style of play:

Cash back bonuses work much better for high-variance players than low-variance players, as there is a greater chance of busting (and receiving bonus), and a greater chance of winning something useful with the bonus afte received.

[Simmo!]

Cash back bonuses work much better for high-variance players than low-variance players, as there is a greater chance of busting.

I agree. Speaking as a "high-variance" player, I'd take 20% cashback with 1x WR over a $500 monthly at 10x WR anyday, it would keep me loyal assuming other factors like speed of cashout etc were at least acceptable of course.

Now flip that on it's head and look at it from a casino standpoint. Losing "bonuses" removed a huge huge headache and security risk. Major. It is also arguably bringing in the sort of punter you want, plus you are only paying out if you "win". Additionally, with licence royalties (assumed) to the software provider gained on net profits, it may also have a benefit here.

So over time, you have effectively trimmed your CPA costs and generated a more loyal "higher variance" customer base while removing a major factor of disputes and fraud.

Kinda makes sense from that perspective.

[Yurned]

I prefer not to play with cashback – I go for regular bonuses, but choosing between straight play and cashback, I choose straight play.

I have several reasons for this. For one, I don’t trust any casino to give me incentives after I give them play. It would be too easy not to give a cashback, much easier than take away money already in my account. Secondly, I was once deemed a bonus abuser after busting my account, playing with insurance. This resulted in cashback not being given then or any bonuses ever after. This is ridiculous – I just lost all the money in my account, where is abuse in that? I should’ve complained to CM, but I couldn’t bother with it. Lastly, if I play with my own money, and I don’t feel good about the games (losing), I can take whatever I have left, and cash out. Under insurance, I feel compelled to lose everything in my account to get some free money. So I’d rather not have it at all.

[cheekymonkey]

Cashback.

I blow £1000.

Here have £30.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

FO.

[aka23]

I agree. Speaking as a "high-variance" player, I'd take 20% cashback with 1x WR over a $500 monthly at 10x WR anyday, it would keep me loyal assuming other factors like speed of cashout etc were at least acceptable of course.

Now flip that on it's head and look at it from a casino standpoint. Losing "bonuses" removed a huge huge headache and security risk. Major. It is also arguably bringing in the sort of punter you want, plus you are only paying out if you "win". Additionally, with licence royalties (assumed) to the software provider gained on net profits, it may also have a benefit here.

So over time, you have effectively trimmed your CPA costs and generated a more loyal "higher variance" customer base while removing a major factor of disputes and fraud.

Kinda makes sense from that perspective.

You are assuming that the cashback bonus will not have a significant wagering requirement or other condtions. In many cases, the cashback is given as a bonus, rather than cash. And this bonus has typical bonus conditions. Cashback with minimal restrictions would make a good sized cut into the profit of the casino. They could do a special promotion like this a few times per month or have a low maximum cashback that could be claimed, but they could not do this on a regular basis for all players.

So you get a situation where either:
1. The cashback is given as bonus dollars and/or has restrictions such that the typical person will not be able to gain anything from it.

2. The cashback has a low maximum overall claim for the casino.

3. The cashback is too small a percent to be appealing to the typical player.

[Simmo!]

They could do a special promotion like this a few times per month or have a low maximum cashback that could be claimed, but they could not do this on a regular basis for all players.

Most could actually but they'd require some co-operation

[soflat]

Casinomeister's response was spot on, in my opinion.

I don't want $10 back after I lose $100.

Just give me $100 up front bonus on my $100 deposits with no game restrictions and let me forfeit the bonus if I later choose (i.e. MGs Clearplay). It's not complicated and it keeps me coming back to places like Grand Prive and Big Dollar (and even River Belle despite their free spins gaffe). Don't try to fix what ain't broken.

The other (non-MG) casinos with the antiquated bonus systems should follow suit rather than just dressing up their 'loyalty' programs.

By the way, B&M's might only give back 1% in cash, but there are other perks such as hotel rooms.

[spearmaster]

B&Ms 1% is still better than online casinos 0.1%...

I actually like the new system of "free spins" that players at some MGS casinos are now getting - though I wish it would appear on the front page immediately after login.

At the same time, if a bonus has been added, it too could pop up on the front page and give the player an option of refusing it...

obviously not impossible if they can do popups within games now...

[GrandMaster]

Cashback at B&Ms in the US tend to run about 1%, so in order to "grab" $500 you have to wager through $50K

That being said, many casinos also offer double or sometimes triple points on slots, sometimes even on video poker. So in theory it might cost you only $16.6K... and if you've had a good run and broken even, it's nice to take that $500 and use it for dinner and maybe a show... on top of which at that amount of wagering, you've probably also earned room and some meals...

Online, there are far less overheads - so I personally think that cashback should start at least around 5%. But, as some people have pointed out, most online casinos give you 0.1% - in my opinion, close to useless. On top of that, you have to play it through at least 8x...

If reputable casinos paid 1% cashback on all games, I would quit my day job and play blackjack 16 hours a day at the table maximum, or set all my computers on autoplay.