Doreen H - Party Casino

[BingoT]

lol you naughty boy....

Hmmmm what ya doing tonught.
My place or your's
Merry Christmas Frufrugirl

[winbig]

Do you not agree that the most fair way for a slot is that payout% is independant of bet-size? For that to be true with a random jackpot, the probablity for winning the jackpot has to be proportional to the bet size.

Else the jackpot could be 'exploited' by betting 0.01$/spin.

So lets assume there is 10.000$ in the jackpot and winning it is independant of bet size with CONSTANT probability = 1 to 10M. Betting 0.01$ with this 1 to 10M for winning the jackpot then increases the slots payout% by 10%!

So basically this shows a slot can not work this way unless you make the chance for winning the jackpot extremely rare (and then highrollers would not play it) or it could be possible to exploit the slot by betting 0.01$.

Favoring high bets IS the only way to do it fair, but it has to be proportional. Highrollers are also building up the jackpots with a equally higher rate so that the low rollers then also benefit the higher bets.

Zoozie

I never disagreed about the payout% based on how much you are betting. I just disagree about the fact that it's apparent that highrollers have a better *chance* of hitting it as compared to lowrollers. Showing high-rollers hitting the jackpots all the time with no low-rollers listed in there only strengthens the fact.

[babs7262]

I don't believe the same person keeps winning. One super slots they have this Beverly person winning alot too.

[TempletonDink]

I never disagreed about the payout% based on how much you are betting. I just disagree about the fact that it's apparent that highrollers have a better *chance* of hitting it as compared to lowrollers. Showing high-rollers hitting the jackpots all the time with no low-rollers listed in there only strengthens the fact.

The problem is they flatly deny that is the case. Here's an email thread I was reluctant to post because I'm so new and it's a mile long.

Hello,

I'm not one to begrudge a player based on their luck but I'm starting
to feel a player called Doreen H must be doing something untoward.
Doreen H seems to constantly win the Party Blitz Jackpot at all hours
of the day and night. I understand that there are players who do very
little but eat and play internet slot machines but with hundreds of
players on at any given time math says more than one person will win.

Your casino rewards high stakes players which is an accepted industry
norm. That said, I feel that your particular system punishes small
stakes players to compensate for jackpot winners by skewing the hold
percent for high stakes bettors in their favor while not offering a
similar advantage for smaller players; I'm not suggesting that the
games pay out any better if you bet the max per spin but it does mean
that they're far more likely to win a jackpot that way which
effectively changes their hold percent and that is something which
contradicts your game fairness rules.

I'm a recreational player and I play because it's fun. What isn't fun
is watching the same person hit the jackpot several times in one day
on consecutive days when I haven't even come close. If you could
please investigate her play and provide me with a comp based on a
percent of my GGR it would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
fthedink

[party reply not shown, it is a canned Bad Beat reply sent in about thirty minutes and addressed to Dear Player]

[Simmo!]

I just disagree about the fact that it's apparent that highrollers have a better *chance* of hitting it as compared to lowrollers.

Thats how all the Random Jackpots work though Winbig. Same at Crypto and RTG and on Mega Moolah at MG. And it makes sense when you think about it, else you would potentially have a +EV game on your hands

[TempletonDink]

[party reply not shown, it is a canned Bad Beat reply sent in about thirty minutes and addressed to Dear Player][/QUOTE]

Hello,

Dear Player is no way to start an email. I did not send you a typical
bad beat complaint, please forward my original message to someone
better equipped to respond to it. I'm aware of the odds, your stock
response is insulting and fails to address any of my points.

I suggested that the hold for high stakes players is better than the
hold for lower stakes players and that Doreen H is taking down
multiple Jackpot wins every day, I never suggested that I am in any
way angry because I haven't won anything in a while.

Please reconsider my original email, I await your carefully considered response.

Best regards,
fthedink

[Party Reply]

Dear F,

Accept my apologies for having addressed you as Dear Player.

Please note that the system does not identify the players based on the bets or the amount that they wager on the games. The random number generator is used to pull the cards, roll the dice, spin the wheels, pick a jackpot winner. The numbers generated by the RNG are not related to each other in any way and the end result is completely unpredictable.

It is quite possible that the player whom you had noticed winning jackpots spends most of the time playing jackpot slot games due to which he/she stands a greater chance of winning a jackpot. But this does not mean only he/she wins jackpots. There are other players also who have won the jackpots which indicates the randomness.

I am sure your perception would change when you win a jackpot. I wish you good luck!!

[TempletonDink]

Dear Rosa,

Thank you for following up with this but I'm afraid we have a failure
to communicate. If you have a supervisor please indicate to them that
I would like a response from that person directly, you continue to
ignore the salient points of my original email and offer me the same
dull descriptions of what is readily available in the FAQ section of
your website. Please assume that I am familiar with the posted rules
and terms of service. I'm also well aware of how an RNG works and
what you are saying directly contradicts not only your rules but the
general mathematical principles of "The Law of Truly Large Numbers."

The in game rule says, "The larger your wager is on each game, the
more chances you have of winning the Jackpot" but you told me the
exact opposite - that the size of a wager has nothing to do with the
outcome.

I'm not suggesting that the size of a wager changes the hold percent
for the slot itself, that would be accusing you of cheating and I
don't have any reason to think that partygaming would cheat. I'm
saying the size of the wager changes the hold percent for the player
by increasing the odds of a jackpot win and that there is no similar
mechanism in place for smaller players.

Again, please forward this entire email thread to a person better
equipped to discuss this matter. If you would like any more
information regarding the math which assures your RNG is fair or any
information regarding player/house hold please feel free to ask, you
may have a better time answering bad beat emails.

[Party Reply]

Dear F,

I agree with you when you say, "The larger your wager is on each game, the more chances you have of winning the Jackpot"; however, this indicates you have a better chance of winning the jackpot when you place more number of bets. The more options you have, the better chance you have to win.

[then it flows into a canned bad beat response and explanation of RNG etc]

Abdul Q,
PartyCasino Customer Care

[TempletonDink]

Abdul, thank you for your response but let's start over.

"The larger your wager is on each game, the more chances you have of
winning the Jackpot" is a direct quote from the in game rules. It
does not indicate that more wagers mean your chances of winning
improve, it indicates that a large single wager stands a better chance
of winning a jackpot and that is precisely what is happening. This
player, Doreen H has won the Party Blitz jackpot no less than ten
times in two days. That is not random, that is prescribed and
indicated that the features and line wins may be random but the
jackpot odds are determined by the size of a wager in addition to the
amount of wagers placed.

Your random number generator is fair, that's not an issue. The seed
number it generates to determine the outcome of any given spin is
determined by a complex mathematical algorithm.

From the inet RNG code "By default, the package runs with 128 bytes of
state information and generates far better random numbers than a
linear congruential generator."

What this means is that your RNG generates trillions of trillions of
possibilities. So since we are in agreement that your system used to
determine the outcome of any given spin is sufficiently impossible to
manipulate or predict, how is it possible that one player out of the
hundreds playing at any given time is consistently winning the same
jackpot?

I'll tell you, it is because as your rules state, "The larger your
wager is on each game, the more chances you have of winning the
Jackpot." and Doreen H is placing wagers large enough to improve her
odds. In fact, she has won the Party Blitz Jackpot three times in the
last hour, a notifcation pops up every time it is hit.

I'm not on a bad run, my player hold is perfectly in line with my
expectations and I'm completely satisfied with my results, please stop
responding to my emails as if I'm complaining about bad beats. I'm
also aware of the dangers of looking for unfavorable trends. What I'm
asking for is a comp based on a percent of my GGR to level out my
variance because I don't carry a bankroll large enough to hit any kind
of jackpot.

Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate the time you must
spend answering bad-beat emails but let me assure you, I don't require
any additional information regarding your RNG or the expected outcome
of any given set of very large numbers (such as winning/losing
streaks.)

Best regards,
fthedink

[Reply]

I understand that you have an eye for detail and have correctly pointed out that one of the players at our site has won multiple jackpots in a row; however, I would like to inform you that it is not just that the player has been wagering big amounts, we would say the player is on a winning spree.

It is purely based on luck that the player may win continuously, sometimes by wagering big amounts and sometimes without it, just lucky.

As you are a special player at our site an amount of $20 has been added into your account and I hope you play more(please don't read as bigger wagers) and get lucky to hit a big one!

[TempletonDink]

Again, apologies for the length of this thing.

[TempletonDink]

Anyone else get a similar response from party?