Brutal RTG sessions

[Simmo!]

Originally Posted by Cynthia777

when do these "Christmas bonuses" come out, anyway??

I'm going out on a limb here, but probably sometime around Christmas I reckon


PS. Sorry Cyn - just remember I'm a Brit

[Cynthia777]

Smart aleck!! (I'll refrain from profanity...for now)

[Cynthia777]

Thanks for keeping the sense of humor though..I'm gettin really silly now, maybe withdrawal (already??) of not playing online. And I tell ya looking for ND bonuses you come across some wild/shady things!!

[vinylweatherman]

Well, we all know that RTG allow the individual operators to alter the payouts of the games. With tables and poker it is done by altering the paytables, but with slots it is hard to see what has been done because they don't use proper reelbands as do Microgaming.
I have had over a dozen bonus rounds recently at King Solomons. Most were bad, some were awful. The best paid around 60x bet, but the rest were no more that 25x bet, with many not even making 10x bet, even with retriggers! Worse, the line wins are rarely up to much. I actually came out ahead in the last session, but what is amazing is how LITTLE I won with all those bonus rounds. Would be better to have less, but better ones.
I play bonus slots because of the lure of a decent bonus round, too many like that and I will lose interest. Most other games are not allowed for the various coupons, so if the slots get boring, I may have to play elsewhere, and sod the 75% bonuses.

[me_and_ed]

When I started this thread I thought it was just me, I thank you all for your feed back and have a glowy warm feeling knowing I am not the only one losing my ass.

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Well, we all know that RTG allow the individual operators to alter the payouts of the games. With tables and poker it is done by altering the paytables, but with slots it is hard to see what has been done because they don't use proper reelbands as do Microgaming.

This question has also bugged me a lot. We know for sure that the RTG casino mangers can change the payout%, but how does the slots implement this ie. what is changed for the slots?

I see the following solutions:

1) (Hard to explain) The reels are an deception at RTG 5-reel slots. Only a single random is used to generate the win. The reels are then just showing a position matching this win. This is not the standard way 5-reel slots are working and it is a kind of cheating the players actually showing the reels. I do not hope this is true. But if it is, then it is very easy to change the payout%, and this is why I include this case. Rival and MG slots does not work this way! , and I think the big majorty of casino slot-software also does not work this way. 'Normally' the 5-reel are actually used to determined the spin result and then the win is calculated. Doing it the other way around is deceptive. (Like showing a card game where it is actually not.) I must state that I do not believe that this is the case, but I am not sure. If someone found the reels for a standard RTG then the SlotAnalyzer program could test it.

2) When changing the payout% for a slot it also changes the reels and only the reels (symbols on the reels). Paytable is the same. This would be the perfect way to do it.

3) The reels stay the same, but wins from 'bonus games' are decreased.
Examples:
For 'picking bonus games' this is easy. Simply just decrease the average win.
For games like 'Fruit Frenzy' simply just reduce the chance to hit. (We have seen this in action... It reduced the payout but 20% when you could never hit)
For games that gives a random #freespins and #Multiplier simply just decrease these.
I do not like this solution!

4) For the Rapid Fire Jackpot slots there also is this solution. Decrease the contribution from each spin to the jackpot and give it to the casino. This I would also say is a fair way to do it.

5) Changing the paytables. I know this is not the case for RTG since the paytables are the same for all RTG casinos, but I am listing it to make the list complete. This is also a fair way to it and was used by Rival.

Can anyone think of more ways to do it? Of course mixing several of these solution can also be used.

I must add that I actually disapprove of changing the payout% for a slot unless it is done for all casinos, because the players never know what they get.
When you play 'Thunderstruck' it is always the same no matter what MG casino you play it. I believe it hurts the RTG brand that the same slot is actually not the same slot for individual casinos or over time.

Zoozie

[Lord_Have_Mercy]

RTG hard? YES, look at my account history from this RTG casino? No Cashouts, no nothing! This is from BJ and Real-series Slots.

11/3/2006 11:52:42 AM Coupon 'G398N ' redeemed $175.00
11/3/2006 11:52:42 AM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/3/2006 11:52:41 AM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/3/2006 11:52:19 AM Coupon 'g398n' requested
11/2/2006 7:08:19 PM Coupon 'TMT4V ' redeemed $150.00
11/2/2006 7:08:19 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/2/2006 7:08:17 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/2/2006 7:08:04 PM Coupon 'tmt4v' requested
11/2/2006 6:48:28 PM Coupon 'WKKYJ ' redeemed $150.00
11/2/2006 6:48:28 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
Date Transaction Amount
11/4/2006 11:16:21 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $100.00
11/4/2006 11:16:04 AM Coupon 'amhww' requested
11/4/2006 11:14:22 AM Coupon 'PDBMP ' redeemed $87.50
11/4/2006 11:14:22 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/4/2006 11:14:21 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $50.00
11/4/2006 11:13:12 AM Coupon 'PDBMP' requested
11/4/2006 11:11:42 AM Coupon 'TBGXG ' redeemed $87.50
11/4/2006 11:11:42 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/4/2006 11:11:39 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $50.00
11/4/2006 11:10:35 AM Coupon 'TBGXG' requested
Transaction Amount
11/4/2006 11:46:45 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $50.00
11/4/2006 11:46:15 PM Coupon 'AJWCN' requested
11/4/2006 11:45:08 PM Coupon 'AEHRF ' redeemed $60.00
11/4/2006 11:45:08 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/4/2006 11:45:06 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $50.00
11/4/2006 11:43:13 PM Coupon 'AEHRF' requested
11/4/2006 11:31:11 AM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Approved! $16.59
11/4/2006 11:31:11 AM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Requested $16.59
11/4/2006 11:16:22 AM Coupon 'AMHWW ' redeemed $120.00
11/4/2006 11:16:22 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved!
11/6/2006 10:02:35 PM Coupon 'BHKHX ' redeemed $65.00
11/6/2006 10:02:35 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/6/2006 10:02:33 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/6/2006 10:01:21 PM Coupon 'BHKHX' requested
11/4/2006 11:49:44 PM Coupon declined
11/4/2006 11:49:44 PM Coupon 'EKANB' requested
11/4/2006 11:49:20 PM Coupon declined
11/4/2006 11:49:20 PM Coupon 'AMHWW' requested
11/4/2006 11:46:48 PM Coupon 'AJWCN ' redeemed $60.00
11/4/2006 11:46:48 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved!
Date Transaction Amount
11/6/2006 10:22:10 PM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Approved! $2.92
11/6/2006 10:22:10 PM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Requested $2.92
11/6/2006 10:05:58 PM Coupon 'QQU9N ' redeemed $65.00
11/6/2006 10:05:58 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/6/2006 10:05:56 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/6/2006 10:05:46 PM Coupon 'QQU9N' requested
11/6/2006 10:04:41 PM Coupon 'EUTJU ' redeemed $65.00
11/6/2006 10:04:41 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/6/2006 10:04:39 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/6/2006 10:04:23 PM Coupon 'eutju' requested
11/11/2006 6:48:43 AM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Approved! $4.36
11/11/2006 6:48:43 AM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Requested $4.36
11/10/2006 1:00:11 AM Coupon 'UUVFQ ' redeemed $100.00
11/10/2006 1:00:11 AM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/10/2006 1:00:09 AM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/10/2006 12:59:43 AM Coupon 'uuvfq' requested
11/9/2006 11:09:57 PM Coupon 'DNVAG ' redeemed $80.00
11/9/2006 11:09:57 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/9/2006 11:09:56 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/9/2006 11:09:10 PM Coupon 'dnvag' requested
11/13/2006 7:29:11 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $75.00
11/13/2006 7:28:54 PM Coupon 'uact3' requested
11/13/2006 7:27:48 PM Coupon declined
11/13/2006 7:27:48 PM Coupon 'uatc3' requested
11/13/2006 7:06:46 PM Coupon 'TU7GG ' redeemed $150.00
11/13/2006 7:06:46 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/13/2006 7:06:44 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/13/2006 7:06:26 PM Coupon 'tu7gg' requested
11/13/2006 12:05:18 AM Manager Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/13/2006 12:05:18 AM Manager Deposit Requested $50.00
11/20/2006 8:45:02 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/20/2006 8:44:40 PM Coupon 'KE43K' requested
11/20/2006 8:09:57 PM Coupon 'JE98F ' redeemed $130.00
11/20/2006 8:09:57 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/20/2006 8:09:55 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/20/2006 8:09:33 PM Coupon 'JE98F' requested
11/20/2006 12:05:16 AM Manager Deposit Approved! $35.00
11/20/2006 12:05:16 AM Manager Deposit Requested $35.00
11/13/2006 7:29:13 PM Coupon 'UACT3 ' redeemed $112.50
11/13/2006 7:29:13 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $75.00
11/20/2006 9:14:22 PM Coupon 'KD3TX ' redeemed $65.00
11/20/2006 9:14:22 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/20/2006 9:14:20 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/20/2006 9:13:58 PM Coupon 'KD3TX' requested
11/20/2006 8:51:06 PM Coupon 'GKFWV ' redeemed $130.00
11/20/2006 8:51:06 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/20/2006 8:51:05 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/20/2006 8:50:46 PM Coupon 'GKFWV' requested
11/20/2006 8:45:03 PM Coupon 'KE43K ' redeemed $130.00
11/20/2006 8:45:03 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
Transaction Amount
11/22/2006 12:31:23 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $75.00
11/22/2006 12:30:54 PM Coupon 'UYA6G' requested
11/22/2006 12:24:12 PM Coupon 'WHWCY ' redeemed $112.50
11/22/2006 12:24:12 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $75.00
11/22/2006 12:24:08 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $75.00
11/22/2006 12:23:37 PM Coupon 'WHWCY' requested
11/21/2006 6:42:54 PM Coupon 'TMUFV ' redeemed $210.00
11/21/2006 6:42:54 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $150.00
11/21/2006 6:42:52 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $150.00
11/21/2006 6:42:22 PM Coupon 'TMUFV' requested
11/22/2006 11:39:29 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $100.00
11/22/2006 11:39:10 PM Coupon 'GEWBM' requested
11/22/2006 11:38:10 PM Coupon declined
11/22/2006 11:38:10 PM Coupon 'whwcy' requested
11/22/2006 10:46:09 PM Coupon 'B9VV6 ' redeemed $75.00
11/22/2006 10:46:09 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $50.00
11/22/2006 10:46:07 PM Neteller Deposit Requested $50.00
11/22/2006 10:45:37 PM Coupon 'b9vv6' requested
11/22/2006 12:31:24 PM Coupon 'UYA6G ' redeemed $112.50
11/22/2006 12:31:24 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $75.00
11/26/2006 6:39:05 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $100.00
11/26/2006 6:38:45 PM Coupon 'qcmdg' requested
11/23/2006 10:51:20 AM Coupon 'RKY4K ' redeemed $160.00
11/23/2006 10:51:20 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/23/2006 10:51:18 AM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $100.00
11/23/2006 10:50:45 AM Coupon 'RKY4K' requested
11/23/2006 10:50:17 AM Coupon declined
11/23/2006 10:50:17 AM Coupon '36gmy' requested
11/22/2006 11:39:31 PM Coupon 'GEWBM ' redeemed $150.00
11/22/2006 11:39:31 PM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/26/2006 7:12:36 PM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Approved! $29.00
11/26/2006 7:12:36 PM Redeem Comp Points Deposit Requested $29.00
11/26/2006 7:11:24 PM Coupon 'BCQQU ' redeemed $160.00
11/26/2006 7:11:24 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved! $100.00
11/26/2006 7:11:23 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Requested $100.00
11/26/2006 7:11:04 PM Coupon 'bcqqu' requested
11/26/2006 6:39:07 PM Coupon 'QCMDG ' redeemed $160.00
11/26/2006 6:39:07 PM NETeller InstaCash Deposit Approved!

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by Lord_Have_Mercy

RTG hard? YES, look at my account history from this RTG casino? No Cashouts, no nothing! This is from BJ and Real-series Slots.

11/3/2006 11:52:42 AM Coupon 'G398N ' redeemed $175.00
11/3/2006 11:52:42 AM Neteller Deposit Approved! $100.00.. etc, etc, etc, etc....!

Man you have a SERIOUS gambling problem!
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop NOW!

(If you really can't stop, at least give RTG's a miss - there is something seriously wrong with their slots Try Hype or inChilli instead!)

[vinylweatherman]

A while back, RTG slots were really SLOW, and it was pretty obvious the reels were a sham when the third bonus symbol was needed. With this, RTG slots use a rising tone and spin the reel for much longer than usual, and it was surprising how suddenly on Goldbeard the final reel went on and on and there was not a SINGLE GOLBEARD to be seen come past!!! In normal mode, Goldbeard flashes past on a regular basis. To me, this means the RTG reelbands are fluid, not fixed as in MG, and can change on a spin by spin basis, also changing between normal and bonus spins (they have us believe the changes to the reels during bonus rounds improve our chances, but if the wins are not determined by random reel stops then it is just an illusion).

It reminds me of Lasseters, who use an infinite deck model for Blackjack, perhaps RTG have something similar for generating the reels on the fly depending on payout percentage settings made by the operator for various parts of the slot game. This would make them "Fruit Machines (as in rigged to percentage settings)", not traditional random casino slots.

[mikepipe]

[quote=Zoozie;132722]This question has also bugged me a lot. We know for sure that the RTG casino mangers can change the payout%, but how does the slots implement this ie. what is changed for the slots?

I see the following solutions:

1) (Hard to explain) The reels are an deception at RTG 5-reel slots. Only a single random is used to generate the win. The reels are then just showing a position matching this win. This is not the standard way 5-reel slots are working and it is a kind of cheating the players actually showing the reels. I do not hope this is true. But if it is, then it is very easy to change the payout%, and this is why I include this case. Rival and MG slots does not work this way! , and I think the big majorty of casino slot-software also does not work this way. 'Normally' the 5-reel are actually used to determined the spin result and then the win is calculated. Doing it the other way around is deceptive. (Like showing a card game where it is actually not.) I must state that I do not believe that this is the case, but I am not sure. If someone found the reels for a standard RTG then the SlotAnalyzer program could test it.


i am not sure, if this helps - but:
in the early days of Cleos gold it was easily to predict, when the feature was to come, because all the five "wheels" turned much longer than in a normal spin, sometimes so long that you began to think of a connection problem.
and when they finally landed - you had the free spins - always!

and a second thing that made me wonder: i hit the 3 achilles once and left the game without choosing one! When i came back a minute later, it showed 15 free games .-- hmmm???