21.com - Nightly Report

[garryarm1]

The thread for BET21.com turned into a discussion about 21.com. Someone suggested we start a new thread on 21.com so here it is. I deposited $200. & got a $200. bonus. I asked about the bonus requirments and this is the online chat about that:

garry armstrong: What are the bonus requirments?
Thanks
Garry
Pino: Welcome to 888 Chat! We are glad to be of service. Please hold whilst I try to locate your Casino-on-net account with your given E-mail address.
Pino: I have located your account. Before we proceed, please confirm the first 2 characters of your password.
garry armstrong: **
Pino: ok, thanks
Pino: are you referring to the 1st deposit bonus?
garry armstrong: yes
Pino: it depends the deposit method you are going to use.
garry armstrong: FirePay
Pino: let me check.
garry armstrong: thanks
Pino: with FirePay the wager requirement is 20 times,
garry armstrong: BJ counts?
Pino: which means you deposit $100 and you have to wager $2000.
Pino: Every game counts, the only exceptions are regarding low risk bet.
garry armstrong: On any of your games, right
Pino: yes, exactly like that. just look out from the low risk bets on the roulette table.
garry armstrong: Does BJ count toward fulfilling bonus requirements
Pino: yes!

I emailed them to find out if all games were OK to fulfill the bonus requirements, this was the reply:
Dear Gary,
Thank you for choosing Casino-on-Net.
I hope this email finds you well, I have located your account with us
and can inform you that the low risk bets are as follows.

In Roulette they are as follows,

1) if you bet $50 on Red and $50 on Black, you will most likely lose on
one and win on the other. The result is a Push, but you just wagered
$100 and can cash out your $50 bonus. It is only the 0 that makes you
lose - a 1 in 37 chance. This makes the chance of losing VERY Low Risk
indeed.

2) High & Low, All 3 Dozens

3) All 3 Columns, All the Line Bets

4) a chip on EVERY number

In Craps, the low risk bets are as follows,

!) There are also bets that win on a 7 and lose on 'The Point'. These
types of bets are also obviously Low Risk.

2) You can also find craps bets that may not exactly cancel each other
out, but can be used to offset some losses and therefore reduce the risk
- You can also consider these Low Risk. For Example a Pass Line Bet will
Lose on 2,3 & 12 and Win on 7 or 11, so a player might place $1 on Any
Craps which will win on 2,3 or 12. Although you are likely to lose the
Any Craps Bet, if it does win, it helps offset those lost Pass Line
bets.

3) High & Low

4) All 3 Dozens

5) All 3 Columns

6) All the Line Bets

7) a chip on EVERY number etc, etc, etc.

Gary, I hope this has been helpful to you, If you require further
assistance in this or any other matter, please feel free to contact us -
we are here for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Kind regards,
Christin R.
Member Support Representative
Casino-on-Net

Seems fair enough. I played for about two hours tonight using perfect basic strategy from a chart created for 21.com rules and number of decks (4). Got the chart from blackjackinfo.com. Chart says the house edge is .50%. My betting strategy was as follows: I would bet $10., if I lost I would bet $20., if I lost that I would go back to $10., any time I won the next bet was $10. So, the only time I lost is if I lost twice in a row. Seems to work better than flat betting. Started with $400., am up to $625. Will continue to play like this and will report the result every day or so in this thread. Seems to be a pretty fair game, dealer did at times get pretty hot and would have a 10 in the hole almost every time. But, like a land based canino would run cold also. I will continue to play like this until I satisfy the bonus and have enough to cash in or go broke.
Next report soon,
Garry

[garryarm1]

Played for about 2 hours, down to $287. - Again, playing perfect stratgy, betting as stated in my last post. Again, the dealer had an abnormal amount of 10's in the hole. The dealer had no problem making pat hands out of 12-16 and rarely busted. If I had to hit, 8 out of ten times I was delt a 10. If I had a 12-16 I might as well have thrown in the towel because drawing to a pat hand was very rare. Looked like more than just bad luck on my part. Will go again tomorrow but the outlook is grim. Guess its time to plan another trip to Vegas, at least if im doing bad there I know its because of bad luck and not some slanted BJ program. I know I probably just sound like a bad loser but that is not the case. I have never played a real dealer that was that lucky for that long.
More Later,
Garry

[Simmo!]

Some data for interested readers:

[soflat]

Played for about 2 hours, down to $287. - Again, playing perfect stratgy, betting as stated in my last post. Again, the dealer had an abnormal amount of 10's in the hole.

If you are still playing $10 or $20 a hand you must have cleared the bonus by now, and if the dealer is getting abnormally good hands then why keep playing?

[Tailgun]

I'm beginning to suspect all online Blackjack games are crooked. I've just been experimenting with different betting strategies at several different casinos, with varied software (Playtech, Microgaming, RTG).

Regardless of using perfect strategy, with either progressive betting or flat betting, I seem to lose every time. And I've noticed with a progressive betting strategy it is common - if not a constant - to lose between four and five of the first seven hands. This consistently puts the player "behind the eight ball" in BJ. Seemingly even with perfect basic strategy.

I'm trying different versions of BJ to see which I prefer. Bodog (RTG) doesn't feature Surrender or the ability to hit on a split beyond the first card. Other casinos use 8-deck BJ games or 4-deck with other various playing restrictions.

I've never seen the kind of hands in Atlantic City like I see online. It's common to lose 6 or 7 hands in a row and almost impossible to win even four hands! I hardly ever win even three hands in row.

What is going on here? I'd like to hear from the resident BJ pros like The Watchdog as to preferred casinos and particular Blackjack games, including which features are 'must have' for playing BJ online.

EDIT: Sorry, it just occured to me my post may take this thread off-topic. I'll repost my reply in a thread of it's own. Sorry!

[GI Joe]

I have played the 200$ match at 21.com.

...I think they are great - betting 25$ through the WR - ending up with 500$ in my bankroll - they where returned via my VISA with in 6 days.

...I find the software fair - but there are long loosing streaks and long winning streaks!


GI Joe
www.gamblersillustrated.com

[garryarm1]

After my last session described above, I saw the writting on the wall & cashed in my initial deposit while I still had it. The software is definatally slanted in favor of the dealer, again, see my post above. I think they are just more clever about it than some of the others. The dealer just had tooo many 10's in the hole, and had no problem drawing to a pat hand. If I had to hit it was a ten 8 out of 10 times. This was consistent for hours. Dont know how I did so well my first session, like I said mabey they are just more clever about how they turn the table.
Played a little BJ at Paradice Poker and things seemed "normal", have not played enough to really know. If I play more, I will post thr results.
Garry

[EasyRhino]

I had success with both Casino-on-Net's and 21.com's bonuses by playing blackjack (same software). Disregarding the bonus itself, I ended up with slight wins after completing the WRs.

My big beef with the software is that the hands are dealt so slowly.

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by Simmo!

Some data for interested readers:

Some more interesting info:-

WR on the bonus is x50! WTF!

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

I had success with both Casino-on-Net's and 21.com's bonuses by playing blackjack (same software). Disregarding the bonus itself, I ended up with slight wins after completing the WRs.

My big beef with the software is that the hands are dealt so slowly.

T&C's say you can't claim the bonus if you've already had a SUB at 888.com (Casino-on Net) - has anyone (e.g. those above) claimed both & got away with it???

Wanted to join up here for SlotJunkies comp - but no bonus, no play!

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

T&C's say you can't claim the bonus if you've already had a SUB at 888.com (Casino-on Net) - has anyone (e.g. those above) claimed both & got away with it???

Yes, at both sites, I've claimed the new deposit bonus x2, a random monthly freechip x2, a happy hour bonus x2, and a single 888.com random bonus.

It's against their terms, and a CSR even mentioned it in an online chat, when I was inquiring about the new player bonus from 21.com.

But the software keeps crediting the bonuses. I do have the accounts registered with different email addresses, but all other information is identical.

So I guess I'll keep playing until they shut down one or both accounts.

Oh, regarding the "riggedness" of the software, I still think they're legit, and the bonuses have paid off about as I expected. I'd like to post my extracts from my wagering from my posts at bonusbug.com:

Aug 20 Casino-on-Net (888.com). $200 for $200 bonus. $2000 WR. 10% efficiency (not really). Deposited $200 via echeck (Citadel). Started with $5 a bet.

This is the slowest software ever!. I started to get really impatient after getting through about half the WR. I started betting $25 a hand just to get through it. In hindsight, this was very irresponsible from an ROR standpoint (almost 20%!). Fortunately, I got lucky.

Couldn't cash out to Neteller without depositing via it, so deposited $20 first. Cashout will be $704 (net $284). Cashout is slow (still pending after 5 business days).

Aug 26 21.com. $200 for $200 bonus. WR $4000, Efficiency 5% (except for slow play).

This is a clone of Casino on Net. In fact, you're not supposed to be able to do the bonus at both places, and a CSR via chat even noticed my two accounts and told me so. However, when I deposited the money, the funds were still matched. Weird huh?

Deposited $200, I stayed patient this time and stuck with $5 bets. Wasn't particularly lucky, and lost a decent chunk of cash at the table. I then verified my ID through some kind of Equifax thing for another 20 bucks. Net cashout was $314, or a net $114 profit.

Sep 8 On the first of the month, I was given $5 with a 2x wagering requirement by both CON and 21.com. Logged into both, busted on one site, and won twice on the other, cashout was $17.50. That was a pretty fun thing to do while drinking my morning coffee!

Got the payout from 21.com a couple days ago, after a titanic wait.

Sep 10 I'm starting to love 888's random bonuses. Got a targeted email that they would bonus $10 on any deposit. Deposited the min ($20), waited about 10 minutes for the bonus, played 4 hands of blackjack to clear the WR, manage to win all four hands, and cashed out with $50.

Sep 30 Got email from Casino-On-Net for both them and 21.com, that there was one of their Happy Hours tonight (actually two hours). Deposit up to $1000, get 10% up to $100. They say allow a day for the bonus to be credited, but it took just a couple minutes. WR is $2000, yielding an edge of 5% (the only real strain is on my bank account for the deposit). Incidentally, blackjackinfo does calculate the house edge on CON's 4 deck blackjack as only .38%, which is better than most.

At CON, I cleared it using their piss-slow software with $10 bets. I spent the vast amount of the session in negative territory, down almost $200 from starting point. However, in the last $100 of the WR, I at least came back into the bonus money. Cashout was $1012, which means $10 of bonus money, and $2 in comps.

Did the same drill at 21.com. Except the experience was pretty much the inverse. Spent much of the time in positive territory, lost a little ground near the end. Cashout had $100 of bonus money, $60 of luck money, and $2 in comps.

So, my experience with CON has been strangely close to expected value. However, overbetting really does set you up to a lot of variance (at other casinos, $25 betting has helped and hurt me a lot more).