Did you get a Christmas present from your Casino?

[Simmo!]

I have to say that I share Simmo's views above - more focus on loyalty would be a good thing - but with the competititive imperative (and even priority) to acquire new customers and the now deep entrenchment of the sign-up bonus in the marketing psyche I don't see this incentive being abandoned any time soon.

Sadly, i agree Jetset.

[Slotmachine]

OK, I'm gonna be the one to say it ...

C'mon, y'all, when it did become that you had to get presents on Christmas? From anybody, much less online casinos.

I think Jetset and Simmo! did a good job explaining this, check their posts. I find it immensely important that a Casino rewards loyalty, just like any other business who thinks you're an important customer. And, judging by the posts in this thread, others feel the same as well. (Some seem to feel very strongly )

We all lose money gambling (except KK), so we pay for the entertainment. Sometimes we lose a lot, and it makes a huge difference that the casino gives some back.

Just look at the publicity here in this thread: 32Red's marketing savvy ensures they get a lot of good PR here in the forums -> new customers, happy regular depositors -> more business, and more profit. 32Red are true pros. A lot of the operations seem amateurs in comparison.

A 3-digit cash gift in the account, no wagering requirement attached, along with a personal Christmas greeting from the management -> goes a long way, I'm sure.

I agree with Simmo! that signup bonuses are a bad thing. I acknowledge that the competition for new players is so fierce that the signup bonuses will stay around, but maybe, just maybe, there's a better way to attract new customers: keeping your existing customers happy. Word gets around - amazingly effectively these days. I'm sure 32Red will have quite a few new customers signing up after this Xmas, and the loyal ones aren't going away anytime soon...

Cheers,
SM

[johnsteed]

***

Simmo!

Maybe then we'll see some decent Christmas bonuses back.

jetset

It is certainly true that it seems that as the industry develops things become tighter and tighter - a situation where one side seeks an advantage and the other then tries to counter it often seems to be the case in the pursuit of reward, and that's to be expected.

satori

When I first started gambling online (circa 2001), casinos were much more generous with random/birthday/Christmas bonuses (remember Easter and Mother's Day bonuses??). And I'm guessing that there was a much smaller player base at that time so perhaps the casinos were putting more effort into developing player loyalty by giving out more frequent bonuses (and typically $100-200). It seems that every year it has declined. which may be a combination of: cut in marketing budget due to increase in chargebacks, bonus abusers and fraud, or possibly a change in focus about the categories of players who will receive bonuses (ie those they deem as most valuable.. perhaps large depositors who rarely cash out?)

All great posts gentlemen. I guess looking at it from a different angle, fair or not, how come a relatively small operation like a 32Red can be so generous to it's players on Christmas, and the rest of the more established field cannot? I'd expect the mega-affiliates like Belle Rock, VegasPartnerLounge, Grand Prive, or a Fortune Lounge to be more giving than they have been. I'd think that they would have enough assets to keep up with the rat race, and maintain their munificence of years past.


It's a growing field, and while I agree that it isn't like '96 anymore, where there were a handful of upstart casinos scrambling to lure-in whatever market (the players) was available then, it's good business sense that they should maintain their generosity (with the players who've been "loyal"). Their main objective is to keep their list of clients growing, while trying to retain as many as they can. How do you do that? Well you try with kindness and by keeping them happy (and presumably with bonuses especially on their birthdays and Christmas). Why take the risk of insulting them by not showing that you care for their business?


Personally, I wasn't really expecting much of anything this Christmas (with the exception of 2 casinos in particular, and 1 certainly came through for me). Jetset is right by stating that these casinos MUST turn a profit, and they must manage and at times juggle their resources according to the market. But as an armchair observer, you should make room to take some hits along the way. Crediting your "loyal" players with just $15-20 (although more would certainly be welcomed ), shows that your putting the company in a position of low-end risk, while most likely earning higher growth potential in the long-run.


You need look no further than within this thread to see that many forum members (and certainly an innumerable amount of others who'll never post here) feel slighted by casinos they've been going to for quite some time (think: Rudepete). It's not hard to fathom that they won't be returning to their regular casinos for the upcoming season, and find another casino where they'll feel more appreciated. 32Red I'm sure took a big hit for December, but the benefits that will likely follow in the coming months will more than offset the losses. Hmmm, you think by this time next year, EVERYONE at this forum will want to be a Club Rouge member?


A final thought about what Simmo! had stated concerning casinos pulling back on various bonuses, because of the initial deposit bonus. I too feel that the initial deposit bonuses are very responsible for hurting not only the player but the casino as well. While I like a Bet365, and they do offer one of those large initial deposit bonuses, there's nothing for the player who wants to keep making future deposits. I'll keep going back, because of their live-BJ (and those PlayTech loyalty comps build-up quickly... unlike most MG casinos), but I would highly doubt most players in today's market would want to return. As stated to me by one of their managers (via telephone), that initial deposit bonus costs them a lot, and they would much rather pump more bonuses into their poker and sportsbook side of things (which as I understand, has been a much more lucrative market believe it or not).


Now, this is just one casino, isolated from every other one in the field. But, few casinos give great (REALLY great) ongoing promotions, or monthly bonuses. The best monthly bonuses (and probably why KasinoKing favors them the most) can be found at various Cryptologic casinos, or at 32Red.


So again, where's the incentive for the player to return, seeing how the bonuses are already dried-up? Too many players will simply move-on to another casino offering a 100% match bonus on their initial deposit. In a sense, one can understand why the casinos (the reputable and accredited ones of course) could feel slightly cheated. They gave you a wonderful opportunity to win money, tried selling you their product by being loyal first, and many times the player won't stick around.


So yes, those initial treats have managed to backfire over the long-haul, thus creating lots of friction between the player and the casino. Now, imagine if there were no "Casinomeister.com" in place, trying to close that very gap. It'll be interesting to see how this practice of giving-out large initial deposit bonuses unfolds and evolves over the course of the next 10-years.



***

[jetset]

John Steed's use of the phrase "managing or even juggling resources" is to my mind appropriate, because perhaps that is what needs to be reconsidered across the breadth of marketing budgets.

Several of the large groups in this business spend tens of millions, literally, on marketing and publicity especially in the States (remember those two groups that featured in marketing media earlier this year looking for agencies over there to turn $20 million budgets into large flows of players?)

One assumes that professional marketers employed by online gambling companies regularly do the sums and research before spending these significant sums of money, yet one hears little of loyalty initiatives other than occasional high profile events like FL's periodic dinners and gifts in the USA. And I'm not just talking about the almost universal practice of loyalty points at low percentage levels based on deposit amounts, either.

Online datamining technology now arms marketers with an immense range of private and relevant information on the customer, giving casinos the ability to be constantly aware of the ongoing value of individual customers and trends - that should be revisited frequently to establish whether the balance between new business and retention is right.

Judging by this thread there would seem to be a need for it - and operators don't have to wait for next Christmas to do it, either.

[Ivy29]

Let me interrupt this serious tone here for a moment to say I LOVE JACKPOT FACTORY! Really the only place I play (besides my weakness for iNetBet). I won some contest from the weekend and its in my account. Still waiting to find out if I have to play it and how much (usually 5 times). You don't have to play your comps redeemed so anything is possible with them. I wish other places would just give you your point money to cash out if you wanted like JP & land based. Sheesh. It's like going for them twice. Or really like 11x-15x in some cases. Doesn't matter in my case, I'll just be playing at JP's anyway.

******back to serious

I really despise casino groups that reward the non-depositor and ignore the paying public. Breakaway and SciFi are like that. Unless you are a big loser there, you can forget getting anything free from them. They have as much as told us that. Not even a stinkin' 10 on my birthday after hundreds deposited, but they consistently run that 10 free or whatever for existing members who haven't deposited yet. They are definitely off the list for me.

[satori]

Johnsteed, thanks!

There's just one thng wrong in your recent post..
I'm not a gentleman - I'm 100% woman

[rudepete]

Thank most of you for agreeing with me to some extent. But I stand by what I told Inetbet, I deleted them from my computer. I did not play the free $10 and I sat and went through pages upon pages upon pages of my account there and found out just how much I really did play and lose and win there. So guess where that was. Lost consideralby more then I won. which in itself is okay, but:
When they all wake up and realize that taking care of loyal players and not catering to new players will benefit them in the long run.
pay attention to those loyal players, give them a little gift every now and then,for no reason, just a thank you gift of $5 or $10 would reap them many more dollars in deposits.
I used to have my own personal host at Starluck and she took care of me on a regular basis on top of the monthly bonus they do give and the fact that once you have 100 comp points you can cash in the $1.00 not have to wait forever for 50 points to get $5, which by the way takes forever to get if you only play European Slots.
So I will stick with the ones, that comp me monthly or when they make a mistake it is in my favor.
Happy New Year and may all your gambling pay off.
Pete

[Macgyver]

I think Jetset and Simmo! did a good job explaining this, check their posts.

Let me clarify something, since it seems it didn't come across in my other post ...

I was referring specifically to expecting Christmas presents from anyone, including online casinos. I was speaking more of the Christmas spirit and its commercialization and loss of good-will than I was addressing online casinos' need to hold on to loyal players.

As far as the second idea goes (holding on to loyal players), I do agree that casinos (online or b&m) only benefit themselves by looking after their loyal players. I go to Intercasino and 32Red (I've got the johnsteed fever ) because of their monthly offers and their excellent reputation, given my own personal experience.

In fact, those two casinos are some of a very select few that I patronize on the off-chance I get a wild hair up my ass and want to deposit without getting a bonus.

So, yes, any business should recognize and look after their repeat customers. I've said enough about the Christmas spirit, so I'll leave it at that ...

[polli123]

I expected free money, got a lot of the last two years. But this christmas nothing happens. I even didnt geht a present by mail. Well i should gamble more next year.

[n1stunnor]

I was very weary about posting this,because I didn't/don't want other players to contact these casinos and say something like "You gave n1stunnor "x" amount,how come you only gave me "x-smaller" amount",or something to that affect(Hey,there's alot of greedy players out there).

I got nice xmas gifts from both 32RED and InterCasino. The only 2 casinos I play at regularly.

Now let me just say before I post the amounts that I so generously received, that I believe that over the past 8 months or so I'm probably somewhere in the top 5 players at 32RED in terms of Club Rogue Points(which of course means I play a lot and bet a lot) and I have been a regular at Intercasino for a few years.

32RED- $632 Thanks Pat and Ed
Intercasino- $500 Thanks Ryan

You know where I'll be continuing to only play at next year