Vegas Frontier and FortuneLounge Spam

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by dominique

Everyone who has a website is a publisher.

If you publish something on the web, you are a publisher and affiliate programs of all descriptions will refer to you as such.

This is what Fortunelounge wrote in http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?p=113385:
"He is a publisher - not an affiliate."

Of course, spammer would be a more appropriate description.

[dominique]

That is utter nonsense.

You go read through affiliate T&Cs, half of them refer to affs as publishers.

I had to reply to that over at WOL, I must have missed it.

On the entire net, not just in this industry, webmasters are publishers.

[inthedesert]

Originally Posted by mary

There exists the possibility (and some may think I'm being unfair here, so be it) that other third party marketers (affiliates etc.) having seen no Fortune Lounge smackdown on Bercovitz will start also sending spam with their aff links.

I agree, and I don't think it's unfair. As I said before to just "remove names" and carry on is not a real solution to this. There will be a point where this will swing back around again. If you don't call a foul or a penalty the game will always keep going.

I looked to Andrew more than Bryan for a solution in this. Saying that it's not "pratical" to take action against a "honest and reputable" operator (FL) didn't sit well with me. What is honest about allowing a third party to spam the crap outta everyone. It makes me wonder what (if any) power ecorga does have over the "approved casinos" they endorse.

I still get the spam on one account and its coming from the Shawn person. It's not the "rickey" or "skidoo" its something new within the last week. What was I saying about buying new domain names and starting over?

If anyone gets any of this spam I would suggest contacting your ISP directly before you do the unsubscribe thing. I talked to mine and it only took a few emails being forwarded. The ISP now takes those messages that come into any customer it has and deletes them before they hit user accounts. It solves the problem for me. It also stops the spammer from getting messages to other people that use my provider. The spammer doesn't even know the messages never make it to the email addresses. It's not a bad deal.

(Thank you to Bryan for your help, time, and effort)

[jetset]

Originally Posted by Ivy29

I don't care what his official relationship is with them, common sense tells me that if he wasn't getting paid for it he wouldn't be doing it. Who else would pay him for FL signups, directly or indirectly? FL of course.
I didn't get any for a day, now it's 3 times as many. They try to disguise it with different "from" names but Outlook Express knows its them and sticks it in my junk folder since I have them on block sender.

A year or so ago FL had that unsubscribe link that didn't work. I had to change email addresses to get rid of it. I just have it all blocked now.

There are several good posts here that are right on the mark imo. Mary's observation that any operator allowing publishers/affiliates to get away with this abhorrent spamming only encourages other unprofessional spammers to get in on the act; another from inthedesert that taking the time to report these bastards to your ISP can start making life difficult for them in return.

But for me, the above post by Ivy goes to the real heart of the matter.

These spammers would not be doing this if they were not handsomely rewarded by the operator for bringing big business to his sites.

I now believe that despite all the statements we have heard from Fortune Lounge about "jealous affiliates" and "efficient unsubscribes" they are only going through the motions here and need to be held more accountable.

They are the people in the best possible position to put the brakes on this nonsense, and the fact that it is continuing (with FL always centrestage) indicates to me that they are placing the business it is bringing in before the sensitivities of the player community on which they depend and the professional ethics of good email marketing practice.

I have to say that one thing is worrying me here, though and that is the apparent lack of formal complaints. I know, I know...even one complaint is too many, but realistically if there were significant numbers of complaints it would constitute greater pressure and more chance of getting serious attention from FL.

I read a very evocative passage recently in an article on a completely different issue, but the same principle: paraphrasing, a minority leader bemoaned the lack of attention some severely underprivileged communities were getting and the idle promises made by local politicians.

"It is only when we are standing out in the open in our thousands that our complaints are taken seriously," he wrote.

I can understand that there are circumstances where players think it wiser not to step forward, but if that is the case then it is important that they do something else (lawfully) to strike back.

[mary]

Well, that didn't last long.

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[spearmaster]

The spam keeps coming - in fact, it has increased over the last few days.

I have once again raised the issue with eCOGRA and I hope that they will finally take action. In fact, I will be highly disappointed if they don't, because it will mean our efforts are for naught.

[inthedesert]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

The spam keeps coming - in fact, it has increased over the last few days.

I agree with this. The effort to remove names didn't help because now it is back. It lasted maybe a few days and now I am getting it again.

Also, I am getting new spam (for non FL casinos) by the truckload. It seems like the unsubscribe bit triggered the flood gates. I don't want to say its the same spammer doing both but what are the odds that two different people would be using the same subject line when spamming. Not very likely. I have seen it a few times already.

It shouldn't take a whole army to step in and fight this. FL should do the right thing and handle this properly. The excuses of "a few people" complaining are pretty weak. Not everyone who gets this spam knows casinomeister or ecorga.

No matter which word you label this person either "publisher" or "affiliate" the bottom line is FL has the control to stop it. Words don't make people forget that in the end FL holds all the cards.

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[GemG7]

I'm typing with one hand and knocking on wood with the other. I haven't had any of the spam since I contacted Andrew and gave Bryan my info. I hope it doesn't start up again.

[jetset]

QUOTE: No matter which word you label this person either "publisher" or "affiliate" the bottom line is FL has the control to stop it. Words don't make people forget that in the end FL holds all the cards.UNQUOTE

This is the bottom line. FL cannot palm off its responsibility to the players for this nonsense.

[erp1]

A friend of mine (not member of this board) got tired of the spam and asked Fortune Lounge to close all her accounts. She is told that her e-mail address has now been removed from their mailing lists. The mail continue:

"Please note that we do have affiliates that send marketing e-mails advertising our Casino and we cannot be held responsible for these e-mails. I will forward your details to them and request you be removed from their lists as well"

In other words: ask the spammer to remove specific mail adresses from the spammer's mailing lists instead of removing the spammer from the casino's affiliate list.

How can eCOGRA accept such a "non-spam" policy?