My experience at Phoenician Casino...

[johnsteed]

***

I'll look like the biggest loser today, having posted a Winner Screenshot at Phoenician just yesterday. I'm not looking for sympathy, because I should have known better (from prior experiences), so ultimately it's my fault for consistently investing into a casino that keeps spanking-me-around. But for me, this week has been very telling about my episodes at Phoenician, and frankly, I just REALLY want to vent about this place.


Earlier this week (at Phoenician), I went through a + 3 hour session without hitting the Free Spin feature on Tomb Raider & Mermaids Millions. That's far from normal in my eyes... although Vinylweatherman responded with a solid post stating that it's not that rare (wherein I assumed I didn't hit the Free Spin feature for both games [each] after approximately 1,200 spins [or 2,400 spins combined]). It's far off my worst-case-scenario target for Tomb Raider (in my experience) at about 550-600 spins. No biggie, just doubled my projections. I was not a happy camper after that session, but I moved on.


Today, I deposited again (earlier this morning... South Korean time), and AGAIN I had similar results, although at first not that ridiculously bad. The BJ was awful, the VP wasn't much better, and again, the slots were formidable. So after losing all of my deposit, I took it upon myself to talk to one of their online reps, and I coaxed her into crediting me with a bonus. Awesome but...


I just wasted a good 7 hours playing off of a bonus given to me yesterday (and I use wasted because I don't believe I was ever going to see a cent of it). I was informed (and I made sure by asking twice) that the playthrough on the bonus was times 20 (on a $150 bonus). I didn't really care about that (having to reach $3,000), I just wanted to know that if I were up, that after playing for a while (like 3-4 hours in my guestimate), I could withdraw IF I was ahead. The only goal I'm generally fixated on these days is being able to reach $300 (everything else is gravy).


After being fortunate enough to land a miraculous Straight Flush and an influx of Full Houses (and fortunate enough to hear the Casinomeister's new webcast more than 10 times on repeat), that was the end of that. I logged-in to inform them about posting my Winner Screenshot, and again, I guess that was the end of that. I should have kept quiet in retrospect.


All the winning stopped. Halt!!! (this was more of what I was used to seeing, actually) I always alternate between games, and it's as if the bottom dropped out from under me. This is always the case at Phoenician. It plays much differently than pretty much all of the other MG casinos (in my eyes). I went from $330, playing a tight game (I was making low bets and switching games), to losing $230 in a couple of hours. That'll happen when you don't hit any free spin features for 4 hours (again Tomb Raider & Mermaids Millions), you don't line-up any slot icons for any decent amount of money, you no longer get anything above a straight or a flush at VP (4-of-a-kinds died altogether, AND full houses). Sure this is normal, because that's gambling. But not from my own experience, it shouldn't (not each game played) run that cold for that long.


End of that, I was down to my last $100 and could see that the software WASN'T going to let me win anything back. Why continue, so I decided to pull-out with what I had left.


I was denied an instant withdrawal.


Well, somewhere (upon reviewing my account information) along the way, the online rep. (another online rep.) now stated that I had to playthrough $20,000 (that's right!!!). Suddenly the 20 times playthrough on a $150 bonus chip (making it $3,000 in playthrough requirements) had become $20,000. WHAT?!!


He told me that I had played-through over $9,000 up to that point. I lost the remaing $100, just as I knew I would, just like the other $230 was swiftly purged through there system. It's all so tidy isn't it.


Today, I went back to ask them how they came up with the $20,000, and another online rep. looked into the matter. She then said that they had made a mistake, that I had to playthrough 20 times the bonus and deposit (suddenly the deposit comes into the picture... fine). So, that's basically $300 times 20, making it $6,000. Right? Well, I mentioned to her that yesterdays online rep. had informed me that I had already played-through over $9,000. She said he made a mistake, and that I had only played-through $5,231. Okay. But then she claims that would still have had to playthrough an additional $4,768 anyways. Huh? I'm confused too.


I was constantly peppered with the oh-so-wonderful...


- "I'm sorry that you feel that way sir". (automated response)


Has anyone in the history of mankind EVER enjoyed hearing those words? It's like someone saying sorry while hiding behind a brick wall (while pebbles are being thrown-at-you).

Sure, no problem! It's only money, no big deal.


I'm seething at the moment because (recap):


- Phoenician is mysteriously MUCH colder than the other MG casinos I play at.

- A online rep. told me that I had to only playthrough the free $150 chip 20 times, to which, became $20,000, to what later became over $10,000 (with a "We're sorry" tee-hee apology).

- How does a 20 times playthrough suddenly go from $6,000 ($3,000 originally, but I have no problem if they're going to attach the deposit AND bonus to it), to even the $10,000 they decided on in the end?

- Where do they get their figures? I was told yesterday that I had wagered over $9,000 up to that point, to which today, I'm told that I had "only" wagered $5,231.

- Automated responses on the randomness of their software (because in almost 5-years of playing online, SURELY I've not seen this already). It's times like that, where I start missing 32Red online reps. Why? They're far more humane about it.

- Because I was pleased that there software was ACTUALLY allowing me to win a little, AND I posted a Winner Screenshot here. After I pointed this out to them, everything froze... (mysterious indeed) I regret promoting them in that light, because it's FAR from the experience that I've had there.



I closed down my account there, and for good. I think it's an insult that they're allowed to use MG software. Today, they remind me of the days they used to be an RTG unit. I'm sure many of you will disagree, and that's fine. I just needed to get this off my chest.


***

[vinylweatherman]

Looks like your account went into MG "Lockdown". I have experienced this before, and I am sure it is due to the way the RNG output converts to game results. MG casinos always seem very streaky in the way they play, this goes both ways, but I must admit I too have found MG casinos in general seem more often cold than hot. I have not had a decent length "Hot" streak for ages, but a number of mid length "Cold" spells have come along. Slots have been particularly dead this last couple of weeks - I have noticed getting Jacks or Better on VP and being unable to better it on any of the 4 hands in the Power Poker. Being dealt 3OK seems rarer, so less instances of 4OK, and 2 pair keeps missing FH on all 4 lines.
When I joined Phoenician, my REAL account had a 3 WEEK "Lockdown" before I had some decent runs, it was rescued by good play in the then bonus account though.
The WR for this group are indeed very high, and you will be lucky to see any of the bonuses, especially the small ones.
Rather than give up though, keep the account live for the free Blackjack tournament. The prizes are substantial, and do now at least end up somewhere useful (Real account). To enter the BJ, but not allow the casino too much action, just have one or two 1c spins on Double Magic, City of Gold etc for 5 separate days. When you get the mailer to say you have qualified you can remove the casino till the tournament. If you had qualified for the one this week that was cancelled this is carried, and you need not play any more in December.
In terms of bonuses, there are better MG offers around. Abolition of the bonus account is an improvement, but they need to adjust WR to be more relaxed for Slots players, although keeping the 60x for BJ. I see no need for this 60x to be on ALL "Table" games, it is only BJ that is an issue in terms of Bonus abuse, although they actually permit the Red & Black wagering on Roulette at 60x WR (you are better off with 50c Atlantic City BJ though). You can also run the VP on a 1c coin on the 4-Hand versions as well as the 50 and 100 hand versions, this gives rapid wagering, and less volatile. Carnaval on 9c a spin is good for working off at 20x, as is 5 reel drive at 9c a spin. The feature slots are more volatile, especially if you go hundreds of spins without a bonus round (far too frequent recently).
I have made a note to look at payout stats to see if it is possible to see a dip this month, and whether Phoenician has a worse payout than its peers (of interest to me as I have an account there too!)
Casino Action are a little "creative" when it comes to explaining some of their features. They will not publish the rates of Comp Points (I have done this for them - for the tournament games as it's easy to work out). The Wheel of Cash - not entirely random as far as I am concerned, seems to have a secret "cap" and if you deposit and lose enough this "cap" releases and a considerable number of wheels come quickly. I do not believe a variation between NONE in 6 weeks to 8 in a day repeated on several occasions where I happen to have lost is the result of a purely random process of "selecting players at random every half hour who have been playing"

[johnsteed]

***


Me

Today, I deposited again (earlier this morning... South Korean time), and AGAIN I had similar results, although at first not that ridiculously bad...

Sorry, I started (writing) this thread late last night, and I thought I should sleep on it. I'm was dead tired (out of frustration no doubt). It should read:


Yesterday, I deposited again (early yesterday morning... South Korea time), and AGAIN...



Hi vinylweatherman,


In regards to what you just said vinylweatherman, I concur with what you're saying about the "Lockdown" part (or how about "Instant Purge"?). If that is true (as I believe it is for a select few MG casinos, especially in regards to Phoenician), I'm not so sure that it applies to all MG casinos. Or perhaps it's that not all of them elect to do so (IF they could alter the game). Whenever I play at a VPL casino, Capital Casino, and a host of others, I do feel that they are letting the games play randomly. And it's not just about winning or losing, I've won at times (like once at Phoenician) off of key big hands (that payed-off) at casinos I didn't feel were playing randomly. At the same time, I've lost and felt as though I at least had the opportunity to win (or that it felt as though it was random).


Sidenote: Forum member tombomb made a list a few weeks back about what casinos showed the worst return, and that list is almost identical to mine.


Just on the notion that Phoenician can alter the gameplay (your theory as well as mine), I won't buy-in anymore. If they are truly only going to let the game play random (let's say...) 1-in-5 times (on 5 seperate deposits), that's enough to keep me away.


The question looming is "Why do I even play if I don't feel that the game is random?". And my answer to that is that I DO feel that (again) there are a number of MG casinos that do let their games play randomly. I have no hard evidence, and it's all personal feelings and a matter of opinion, but that's all I got, and I have to trust my instincts on this one.


This may sound crazy, but I noticed that a number of times (on the casinos which routinely seem to play tighter) when and IF the player is winning a lot, it's best to keep playing (or cash-out) prior to to logging-off or going to the washroom (lol) and letting the session time-out. Whenever I've gone back (log in), that seems to be the end of that, and ALL games run cold. Prime example, I spent too much time posting my Winner Screenshot yesterday, thus I timed-out. Again, no proof, just theory.


Another note about the games going cold, they'll ALL go cold. You don't just roll down a hill, with small bumps (or something to occasionally to reach and grab onto), you fall off a cliff (no stops). If I could have recorded the audio last night, all you would have heard was the game spinning (and after an hour of that, my cursing ). Darn Treasure Chests (Mermaids Millions) and Aztec Statues (Tomb Raider) kept blocking everything from lining-up on each spin (it all looked good from the right-to-the-middle, but it doesn't pay that way ).


And I generally alternate between games, from VP (occasionally BJ... but I don't care for online BJ these days unless it's live), back to slots, and back again, ect... But while I was winning, things were pretty level for some time. When the "cold streak" started, I couldn't even get make up any ground. I play VP and pull-out IF I lose $10 from the point of which I started, or IF I'm up by $10, and try my luck at slots for a relatively small number of spins. During that streak, not once did I ever get up again on the VP (just a lousy $10 bucks... yeeessshh).



vinylweatherman

When I joined Phoenician, my REAL account had a 3 WEEK "Lockdown" before I had some decent runs, it was rescued by good play in the then bonus account though.

I had one decent run (yesterday for 1-hour) since joining, and I had one monster hit (5 scatters on Tomb Raider). Considering the amount of deposits I've made there over the past 3 months, that's pathetic.


Again, all casinos will run cold at various times, but just not as cold as I've seen Phoenician get.


cont...

The WR for this group are indeed very high, and you will be lucky to see any of the bonuses, especially the small ones.

Yes, agreed. I generally find (not always mind you) that the most important factor about playing with bonuses aren't JUST about meeting the wagering requirements and T&C's, but that gameplay can be awfully tight with bonuses (again, theory, no concrete proof).


For instance, I took Royal Vegas up on their "100 free spins" offer 3 months back (which is a horseshit title for that promo, because it's $100 in free credits, and you can skim-off the winnings after your session). I had incredible luck, managing to skim-off $900!!! Awesome, but then I had to transfer that over to my real account and playthrough (I should have settled-on $100 in retrospect) for a massive amount. While certainly not as cold as Phoenician, nothing was hitting in my real account after the transfer. It was an exhausting purge. You'd think that having $900 is enough to get you over any wagering requirement hump, but it ain't if can't get a few big hits along the way. It just seems like it was a GIANT tease set-up, to make me feel as though I could win big here... but it felt like it was never going to happen.


***

[Slotmachine]

The conspiracy theorists are at it again!

So you had a losing streak. Happens a lot when you play a random game, especially with slots. But then...you had 5 scatters on Tomb Raider!?! I've never had 3! Honestly, I did not know Tomb Raider had a free spins feature, I've never hit it ...and Phoenician gave you a bonus just because you were unlucky? That's exceptionally nice of them I would think.

Look, if you play slots, you gotta be prepared for the most amazing unlucky streaks. That's just the way it is. You'll hit something eventually, but with slots, the most important thing is not to count on it happening in the near future. Look at it this way: Deposit only what you can afford to lose each month, and you'll probably have a nice run every 6 months or so, which will nearly cover your losses for the past months.

MG Lockdown? Oh, please....you need to get out more.

Cheers,
SM

[johnsteed]

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Slotmachine

MG Lockdown? Oh, please....you need to get out more

.


Advice taken, will do.

Look, if you play slots, you gotta be prepared for the most amazing unlucky streaks. That's just the way it is. You'll hit something eventually, but with slots, the most important thing is not to count on it happening in the near future.

Yes, you're right slotmachine. Can't always win. There's not always a win waiting around the corner.

Look at it this way: Deposit only what you can afford to lose each month, and you'll probably have a nice run every 6 months or so, which will nearly cover your losses for the past months.

Yes.

I've never had 3! Honestly, I did not know Tomb Raider had a free spins feature, I've never hit it ...and Phoenician gave you a bonus just because you were unlucky? That's exceptionally nice of them I would think.

Yes, the bonus was nice of them. I guess I was too caught-up in the whole $20,000 playthrough requirement, which later became just over $10,000. I suppose they were giving me a realistic and wonderful opportunity at winning some money. I guess I was being overly negative when I started this thread.

The conspiracy theorists are at it again!

I can accept being called a "consipiracy theorist" in this case. I've got no hard evidence, and I guess I'm just being a tad too negative at this point. Having said that slotmachine, I'm perplexed that you would use the term "conspiracy theorists". You're not wrong in doing so (because we are throwing out just that... theories), but it would seem highly hypocritical that I couldn't just turn around and label you with the same tag. You generally go off on how the RNG works, but, how do you have any hard-evidence to back up what you're saying? I understand what you're saying in part, but I'm not a mathematician either.


Examples of what you've said in other threads recently:

Well, I took the monthly match at 32Red and had a go. Figured I'd try and get some of the WR done before hitting the progressives... 500eur lasted me about 30 minutes. Straight down, no nonsense. Played Halloweenies, Spring Break and Thunderstruck. They were absolutely COLD, I'm talking absolute zero here. Man, that was just no fun at all. I'm just not having any luck online.

Reminds me of almost all of my sessions at Phoenician. If it happened once (or just a few times), I wouldn't say boo. But, it keeps happening. I DO have luck online, just at a select group of casinos.

"Pick bonus" games are like this in many slots, I suspect in most slots: The win is predetermined anyway. Even if it's NOT predetermined, it does not matter which one you pick. Before you pick, it does not make a difference which one you choose. The difference comes AFTER the pick. And in the long run, it all evens out. So it just doesn't matter.

Well, I felt my session upon receiving the bonus seemed "predetermined". Just a theory though.

Some slots work differently: The instant you hit "spin", the RNG churns out a random position for each reel individually. The combination of those positions then determine your win. This is a better simulation of a real mechanical slot machine but it's no more random or fair than the other.

In short, as far as I know, no one that posts here truly knows how the RNG works inside and out. So, all we're left with is theories. While I don't agree with everyone's theories (and I'm not expecting everyone to agree with mine), I do think it's a good thing to share our gaming experiences and put them out there, in case too many posters are sharing the same experience as me. I think I've been fair (historically) in sharing my information on the good casinos (and positive experiences) as well.



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[paul02085]

Johnsteed, I just want to say i really enjoy your posts. Please keep them coming!

[tim5ny]

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This may sound crazy, but I noticed that a number of times (on the casinos which routinely seem to play tighter) when and IF the player is winning a lot, it's best to keep playing (or cash-out) prior to to logging-off or going to the washroom (lol) and letting the session time-out. Whenever I've gone back (log in), that seems to be the end of that, and ALL games run cold. Prime example, I spent too much time posting my Winner Screenshot yesterday, thus I timed-out. Again, no proof, just theory.


Another note about the games going cold, they'll ALL go cold.

***

And I thought it was just me! You hit the nail on the head JohnSteed! EVERYTIME I have gotten substantially ahead after a great session, and shut the casino down and come back later or the next day, EVERYTHING goes negative after that. Every game... every move I make.. slots, VP, anything. The whole casino goes into a "gimme my money back mode". If this happened once, twice, or even five times, I'd say that it was just not in the cards for me to win that day. This has happened everytime, and it sucks.

[tim5ny]

MG Lockdown? Oh, please....you need to get out more.

Cheers,
SM

Call it what you want to... but the RNG definitely goes into cycles where it significantly decreases the overall payout casino-wide. When it's in that mode, there's not a chance in hell for you on any game. Those cycles can last a long time too. If you play enough, then you'll see that we're not imagining this. I don't believe this is controlled by individual casinos, but something built into the MG program.

[liquidsoap]

And I thought it was just me! You hit the nail on the head JohnSteed! EVERYTIME I have gotten substantially ahead after a great session, and shut the casino down and come back later or the next day, EVERYTHING goes negative after that. Every game... every move I make.. slots, VP, anything. The whole casino goes into a "gimme my money back mode". If this happened once, twice, or even five times, I'd say that it was just not in the cards for me to win that day. This has happened everytime, and it sucks.

you guys make me laugh, you say it happens once, twice, or even five times.
Ok so you are telling me you never have a winning session, sure it happens but thats slots, not everyone goes in and expect to win every day like kk, i no i sure dont.
and you said you played for 4 hours?
Thats damn good for 150 dollars, i wouldnt be making a negative post about them, i would be praising them.
You guys shouldnt be making these comments, sure losing happens, but you are telling me it never goes the other way, one day you win the next you keep winning, if you cant take losing either you need to call a ga number or you need to quit before something serouis happens.

thats my 2 cents

[PeggyTez]

I don't know if it's the whole casino or just based on the person playing. I've found over the few years I've been doing this that if I stay away from a casino awhile, they'll start sending reminder mails. When that happens and you go in, suddenly your luck seems a bit better. Last December I got a "we miss you" bonus from one of the Bellerock casinos and ended up cashing out over $1,000 from it. I purposely try to drop $50 here and there in a casino, but not often. After a few months, hit it one day and cha-ching! Maybe it's just coincidence, maybe it's just luck but that's the way it's been working out for me.