Fortune Affiliates Retroactive Terms

[dominique]

Peralis, this is not the point.

If I tell you that I will pay you $5 for every beer you serve me, and when it comes to paying I decide the beer was too warm and I pay you only $3 per beer, you will be pissed. I already drank the beer, so I don't care.

The quality of the beer, whether there were pretzels involved and how many times I went to the bathroom has nothing to do with it. It also doesn't matter wether the beer cost you $2 or $4 - the only relevant point is that I did not pay what I said I would and you are screwed.

[peralis]

Originally Posted by dominique

Peralis, this is not the point.

If I tell you that I will pay you $5 for every beer you serve me, and when it comes to paying I decide the beer was too warm and I pay you only $3 per beer, you will be pissed. I already drank the beer, so I don't care.

The quality of the beer, whether there were pretzels involved and how many times I went to the bathroom has nothing to do with it. It also doesn't matter wether the beer cost you $2 or $4 - the only relevant point is that I did not pay what I said I would and you are screwed.

It is nothing like that.. they did not decrease the %....

to take your analogy...

If I say I will give you $5 for every beer you serve me... actually that does not work...

Here:
I send somebody to a place that sells beer and I get a % of every beer sold to that person.. however, they also have a slot machine there. I never sent the person there to play teh slot machine.. I sent him there for the beer.. So, now the place says.. well, since you sent him here, you will get a % of what he plays as well..

2 scenarios..
1. You could stick to your deal where you only get the money for the beer.
2. You can earn more if that person drinks beer and loses at the slot machine. If he wins, you bear a % of that loss as well.. You may be lucky and he wins.. takes his winnings and buys a bar round...

[dominique]

Peralis,

The ONLY point is that before I sent the players I was told I would be paid in a certain fashion.

Now that they have the players they refuse to do it.

Every lawyer will look at this and this only.

Whether it was smart to offer me this contract is not the point.

There is no problem with them changing when they realize what they are doing isn't working for them - just not retroactively!!!

If you want or need to change things retroactively, you sit your partners down and talk all the options through and you get PERMISSION to change the rules in the middle of the game.

Everything else is breach of contract and it is illegal here and in Germany and in South Africa and anyplace I can think of.

[peralis]

Originally Posted by Simmo!

Peralis. I take your points regarding x-promotion, but surely if i send a customer to buy a U2 CD at Amazon and they buy Britney's latest instead, I should get my % as whichever way you look at it, I gave Amazon a new customer, and without me they wouldn't be shopping there.

No.. that example would be like them taking advantage of a different promotion at the casino I sent them to. x-promotion would be more like amazon saying "we do not have the title you want, however you could try at this and this music store.. They could give you a share on that or not...

Originally Posted by Simmo!

Regarding the Quote above, how can you say this when you've just had your agreement ripped up and changed so you earn less without your consent? You're not telling us something IMHO. Once bitten , go back for more??

If someone's been nice to me in the past, then does me up like a kipper, I want to learn from that, not just accept it 'cos "i like them". Sorry if that sounds condescending, it's not meant to be but i can't think of an alternative way to phrase it

I did not say that they were "nice".. I said that they treat you well. Always have and I am sure always will.

Originally Posted by Simmo!

And put a big banner on my site that says "You can shaft me, i like it!" (no its not a gay site btw). If we don't express our feelings on this, we'll get it over and over and over again. If we make a stand and get our point over, you'll benefit too while you continue to promote them who shaft! I really think you ought to think about your stance on this Peralis. Really I do.

That is up to every single person to decide for themselves. All I am saying is that we profited a lot from them in the past because of things they were not obligated to do.. one of the conditions was not cross marketing when anybody signed up.. at least I sincerely doubt that .. now they are saying that if you want to take advantage of the x-marketing.. then you will share the costs..

[peralis]

And now I am done with this .. just wanted to try and add a flipside to the situation..

Cheers

[Simmo!]

Originally Posted by peralis

And now I am done with this .. just wanted to try and add a flipside to the situation..

Cheers

No harm in that peralis and its good to see two sides to any debate. If you're happy to accept the way they treated you then of course that's your decision.


Meister: I think this should be back in a forum accessible to everyone. After all, whether players are interested in affiliate issues or not is fairly irrelevant. If a business i had a relationship was treating other relationships with other businesses in this manner, I'd at least want to be aware of it.

[dominique]

Originally Posted by peralis

now they are saying that if you want to take advantage of the x-marketing.. then you will share the costs..

No, they never said that at all. They explained nothing. They said this is the new deal, we have to do it because we are in financial trouble. Therefor, you have to take it.

I never heard a thing about cross promotion from any fortune person I spoke to. Not a word. No choices. No asking for input. Only the new rules were presented, with absolutely no discussion of choices, alternatives or reasons.

Meister: I think this should be back in a forum accessible to everyone. After all, whether players are interested in affiliate issues or not is fairly irrelevant. If a business i had a relationship was treating other relationships with other businesses in this manner, I'd at least want to be aware of it.

I agree. I want players to know that Fortune is in financial trouble bad enough to have to stop paying the agreed money to affiliates. It is how Fortune explained why they breached contract. It is of concern to players. That is why I posted there and not here.

[Webzcas]

Meister: I think this should be back in a forum accessible to everyone. After all, whether players are interested in affiliate issues or not is fairly irrelevant. If a business i had a relationship was treating other relationships with other businesses in this manner, I'd at least want to be aware of it.

I am inclined to agree. I think it is very important that players know how affiliates are treated and vice versa.

Peralis, I respect your position on this issue, but I do disagree with you nonetheless.

Fortune Affiliates did not consult with us over these changes to the T & C's, there was no dialogue. We were told to like it or lump it.

To me this is a breakdown of a successful partnership and there is a trust issue at stake here. If they can make these changes now, what is there to stop them reducing overall comission percentage in a few months time, or worse?

[dominique]

Originally Posted by Webzcas

To me this is a breakdown of a successful partnership and there is a trust issue at stake here. If they can make these changes now, what is there to stop them reducing overall comission percentage in a few months time, or worse?

And what's worse, it has signaled to all the other programs that it is ok to breach contract with affiliates. Already 3 programs have followed suit.

This is likely the single most important issue ever faced in this industry.

Are online gambling institutions bound by contracts or not?

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by dominique

No, they never said that at all. They explained nothing. They said this is the new deal, we have to do it because we are in financial trouble. Therefor, you have to take it..

I don't think they are in financial trouble. They may have said that it wasn't a financially sound thing for them to continue with the way it was structured before - but financial trouble? I would have to disagree there.

Originally Posted by dominique

I never heard a thing about cross promotion from any fortune person I spoke to. Not a word. No choices. No asking for input. Only the new rules were presented, with absolutely no discussion of choices, alternatives or reasons...

They may have indeed contacted a few affiliates for advice - but you may not have known about it. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by dominique

I want players to know that Fortune is in financial trouble bad enough to have to stop paying the agreed money to affiliates. It is how Fortune explained why they breached contract. It is of concern to players. That is why I posted there and not here.

Are you sure this is how they explained it? I don't think anyone would admit that they were in financial trouble.

Meister: I think this should be back in a forum accessible to everyone. After all, whether players are interested in affiliate issues or not is fairly irrelevant. If a business i had a relationship was treating other relationships with other businesses in this manner, I'd at least want to be aware of it.

I placed the thread here mainly so that it would stay focused and not go off track with comments from the peanut gallery

It's viewable by God and everyone else, nothing is hidden from anyone, just we happy few are posting here. But if you really feel I should move it back, then I'll do it. If a few more of you feel this way, then fine.