Hi to all from Johnny's Amusements

[Johnny's Arcade]

That is another thing. If you are involved in a large sesh in a Welcome Break service station you can ask for a permit which allows you to park for as long as you are playing the machines for free. That is the way it should be. Why should a paying customer have to pay for parking? I do understand the 2 hour rule as it it is designed to stop people abandoning cars to car share etc. But there is absolutely no reason at all (apart from greed) why Moto services cannot give this concession to players who like a huge session. I got hit with an £80 charge once when I became involved in a massive 4 hour sesh. I had no intention whatsoever of paying this charge and sent it straight to the Moto head office along with a major letter of complaint. Needless to say they wrote back to me saying the charge was being waived. Big deal. It was getting bumped anyway! They have no legal way of collecting this type of fine anyway. Only the Police & courts have the power to collect fines. All they can do is send you threatening letters which I would just have filed straight in the bin!

[vinylweatherman]

That is another thing. If you are involved in a large sesh in a Welcome Break service station you can ask for a permit which allows you to park for as long as you are playing the machines for free. That is the way it should be. Why should a paying customer have to pay for parking? I do understand the 2 hour rule as it it is designed to stop people abandoning cars to car share etc. But there is absolutely no reason at all (apart from greed) why Moto services cannot give this concession to players who like a huge session. I got hit with an £80 charge once when I became involved in a massive 4 hour sesh. I had no intention whatsoever of paying this charge and sent it straight to the Moto head office along with a major letter of complaint. Needless to say they wrote back to me saying the charge was being waived. Big deal. It was getting bumped anyway! They have no legal way of collecting this type of fine anyway. Only the Police & courts have the power to collect fines. All they can do is send you threatening letters which I would just have filed straight in the bin!

They can still clamp you in England, at least until the new law comes into effect. I have seen an even worse parking term. If you don't pay the charge, your car will be clamped the next time it turns up in ANY of their service stations.

If I knew of an "emptier", I probably would pay the parking fee as a token of condolence for what I was about to take from them

I didn't know this Welcome Break "fruitie pro" permit system was at all of their services, nor that it was still running. The problem is that you STILL have to leave the machine to ask for the permit and stick it in the car. What is needed is an annual pass that can be displayed so that I could park at any Welcome Break, play as long as I liked, and not keep checking the time. Welcome break have some good arcades, but so do Moto.

I had one parking ticket that appeared at 3am in a blizzard at a Moto services. It was buried under snow, but flew off when I turned the wipers on. I picked it up, but the registration of the offending car had not been written on it, so my mistake, it wasn't MY parking ticket, I must have been mistaken Moto now use ANPR to work out how long you have parked, but all they will be able to do soon is send you a charge in the post, and I have never known any to be chased up.

My concern is that now it isn't Moto or Welcome Break that run the car park, but a contractor, and this contractor makes money by collecting the charges, hence the more rigorous enforcement.

[Johnny's Arcade]

If I were ever to be clamped at a service station I would kick up such a stink with the manager of the service station it WOULD be released for no charge. Either that or the stihl saw/boltcutters would come into play. I would not under any circumstances (as long as I had been a paying customer) pay any de clamping fee or any so called "Parking Charge Notice" UNLESS it was from the Police. NEVER!!

[IanO]

Incoming stupid question: Do they call it that because all the symbols are fruits?

Made me curious, so I went off a lookin...

Courtesy of wikipedia:

''Early machine gave out winnings in the form of fruit flavoured chewing gums with pictures of the flavours as symbols on the reels. The popular cherry and melon symbols derive from this machine. The BAR symbol now common in slot machines was derived from an early logo of the Bell-Fruit Gum Company. The payment of food prizes was a commonly used technique to avoid laws against gambling in a number of states''

[vinylweatherman]

If I were ever to be clamped at a service station I would kick up such a stink with the manager of the service station it WOULD be released for no charge. Either that or the stihl saw/boltcutters would come into play. I would not under any circumstances (as long as I had been a paying customer) pay any de clamping fee or any so called "Parking Charge Notice" UNLESS it was from the Police. NEVER!!

To be honest, I have only rarely seen cars having been clamped at the services. It is usually a charge notice put on the windscreen. I have even seen an "old banger" still there on a revisit some days later, with no clamp.

I am sure that in the past it has been mostly bluff, but with them having "sold the rights" for enforcement to the type of contractors that DO work on other private car parks, and DO clamp freely, I suspect that it is no longer a bluff, and that any charge will be followed up. The fees also exceed guidelines laid down by the voluntary code, which is a suggestion that the companies involved are free to do what they like, and have been doing so in earnest recently before they are finally put out of business in England as well as Scotland.

It is this persistent behaviour that has made the government outlaw clamping despite objections from landowners that they will be left with no way to protect their carparks from a "free for all". Had these companies behaved fairly, they would NOT have faced this change in the law, and may even have escaped it in Scotland.

At least without clamping and towing, the motorist cannot be held to ransom to pay on the spot, but can go away and mount a challenge to the charge if it is enforced through the courts (which is probably unlikely).

I suspect services will go back to managing their own carparks after clamping is banned, as the companies will no longer pay service station operators for the rights to operate parking control. It will be the other way around, with them asking to be paid to patrol the carparks. Only in peak times such as August bank holiday and the school summer holiday do they encounter problems with fitting new arrivals into the car parks, which is the only situation in which they can LOSE overall revenue from new visitors going elsewhere as car park "blocking" visitors do not spend enough per hour to make it up.

I also recall that in the old days most of the parking charge was given back as a restaurant voucher so that if you had stopped to rest and eat THEIR food, you paid very little for the parking, and the charge was to discourage non-paying customers from leaving their car there and spending money elsewhere, such as by bringing a picnic, or cooking in their caravan.

The original purpose of the charge was to ensure that spaces were always available to motorists wanting to pull in, and so only needed to be enforced for a fraction of the time.

There is NO danger of the car park being overfilled at 3am, but the new companies are out ticketing at this time, even in a SNOWSTORM!! This is not just greed, but a SAFETY issue, as it is forcing motorists to drive on when it is unsafe to do so due to the weather or tiredness, with those putting safety first being charged £10 or more for NOT leaving within the 2 hours regardless of conditions or tiredness. The highways agency just does not see this, and despite constantly running motorway campaigns aimed at getting drivers NOT to forge ahead if tired, or conditions are unsafe, they allow the operators of service stations to use a punitive charge to pressure motorists to move on after 2 hours, even if there is plenty of space available for them to stay, and new arrivals to park up.

This system also means that other laybys are stuffed with lorries, leaving nowhere for others to park up short term if needed. This is because the haulage industry is on it's knees already over high diesel prices and the inability to pass these on to customers because of competition from abroad using cheap diesel. They also save money by taking short cuts through small towns and villages, rather than taking the wide roads and dual carriageways that may get them there faster, but cost more in fuel. One notorious shortcut is used one way just to avoid the toll on the Severn bridge, as it is actually cheaper to fight through a few small villages to get into Wales from further up the M5/M6 than to go over the bridge. It's free to leave Wales, so it's not a problem the other way (if anything, this is the wrong way around).

[Johnny's Arcade]

"I suspect services will go back to managing their own carparks after clamping is banned, as the companies will no longer pay service station operators for the rights to operate parking control. It will be the other way around, with them asking to be paid to patrol the carparks. Only in peak times such as August bank holiday and the school summer holiday do they encounter problems with fitting new arrivals into the car parks, which is the only situation in which they can LOSE overall revenue from new visitors going elsewhere as car park "blocking" visitors do not spend enough per hour to make it up."


Under the current situation the way I believe it works is the service stations pay these companies to patrol their car parks on behalf of the services operator. I am not however sure who gets the "Fine" money (If anyone is mug enough to pay that is). It most certainly would not be me anyway!

[vinylweatherman]

"I suspect services will go back to managing their own carparks after clamping is banned, as the companies will no longer pay service station operators for the rights to operate parking control. It will be the other way around, with them asking to be paid to patrol the carparks. Only in peak times such as August bank holiday and the school summer holiday do they encounter problems with fitting new arrivals into the car parks, which is the only situation in which they can LOSE overall revenue from new visitors going elsewhere as car park "blocking" visitors do not spend enough per hour to make it up."


Under the current situation the way I believe it works is the service stations pay these companies to patrol their car parks on behalf of the services operator. I am not however sure who gets the "Fine" money (If anyone is mug enough to pay that is). It most certainly would not be me anyway!

It's often the car park management company that get the money, which is why they will often pay to be allowed to operate a car park, and will try every piece of trickery they can think of to issue fines.

In law, no business can "fine" someone, they can only make a "reasonable charge" to cover their costs in remedying a breach of contract. This is why private clampers have long lists of "charges". If challenged in court, charges are often significantly reduced to what the judge feels was the reasonable cost to the company for dealing with the breach of contract. No element of profit is allowed to be factored in, which does NOT suit the clampers. They clamp and tow to get the money up front, and when cases do get to court, they will often ignore court orders to refund the charges. THIS is why the government has decided to ban the whole thing, rather than try yet again to get the industry to behave.

Those who bleat about no longer having the means to keep private car parks clear of unauthorised users only have themselves to blame. They HIRED these cowboy companies in the first place, else no cowboy company would be in business. The legit companies have also suffered because the cowboys were free to ignore all voluntary agreements at will, and nothing could be done about it.

[Johnny's Arcade]

It's often the car park management company that get the money, which is why they will often pay to be allowed to operate a car park, and will try every piece of trickery they can think of to issue fines.

In law, no business can "fine" someone, they can only make a "reasonable charge" to cover their costs in remedying a breach of contract. This is why private clampers have long lists of "charges". If challenged in court, charges are often significantly reduced to what the judge feels was the reasonable cost to the company for dealing with the breach of contract. No element of profit is allowed to be factored in, which does NOT suit the clampers. They clamp and tow to get the money up front, and when cases do get to court, they will often ignore court orders to refund the charges. THIS is why the government has decided to ban the whole thing, rather than try yet again to get the industry to behave.

Those who bleat about no longer having the means to keep private car parks clear of unauthorised users only have themselves to blame. They HIRED these cowboy companies in the first place, else no cowboy company would be in business. The legit companies have also suffered because the cowboys were free to ignore all voluntary agreements at will, and nothing could be done about it.

This will be a lot better for all in England when clamping is outlawed. It is just a form of extortion. That at least means you can enjoy a large session in a service station knowing your car will be OK. Any tickets etc. can just go straight in the bin!