Tradition Casino

[tradition]

Tradition,

Comment-allez vous? Pleased to see the owner herself answer questions in this forum. Just one question. I know there is a 200% first deposit bonus and the 1919% first deposit bonus. I know I am certain to bust out on the latter but want to try it out for fun's sake. However, I also think that the 200% bonus is attractive. Can I take out both?

Meanwhile, you may take comfort from the fact that most members here are not greedy bastards who only pursue free chips but we want casinos to treat us fairly. Not following Rival's lead in outright banning of bonuses for new players is a good start.

lol Je vais très bien, merci ;-) No, you can't take both of them, but you can take 1st deposit 1919% and 2nd deposit 100% match bonus, and for your third deposit, you can take the 250% match bonus deposit ;-)

[chuchu59]

Fair enough. Merci beaucoup Tradition.

[tradition]

Thanks again to CLJ to invit me here, it's really interesting

The Rival system is a problem because the rules that it expects players to abide by are SECRET. This results in some players having great difficulties, such as getting accounts locked, or having all promotions vanish, yet KK has TWENTY accounts at TWENTY different Rival casinos, and doesn't seem to suffer from this "secret system".
It would be fairer if Rival included the rules in terms and conditions, such as banning the taking ONLY of no deposit bonuses, and moving on from one Rival to another doing this. This is probably one of the criteria this system uses, but Rival keep this secret, which makes it look like they have something to hide, yet this kind of policy is pretty normal when you have other large casino groups containing a number of sister casinos, where they specify in the terms of each that only ONE no deposit welcome bonus can be taken across the entire group, or even only ONE welcome DEPOSIT bonus across the entire group. Since it is in the terms, players can see it, and know why they are unable to get the next "free chip" at the next sister casino they try.

It's true. Rival give to each operator some automatic rates for each player and they don't give to operators any precise explanations on these rates. So, most of Rival operators are a bit affraid to take the risk to change something in the soft, so they seem systematically adopt the usual security system without trying to ajust it.

You're speaking about "secret" and you're right because it seems nearly impossible, even for Rival operators, having the exact signification of automatics rates. That's why i decided to modify the system and allow all players in the casino.

My new system permit to players to subscribe and if there is a problem with their account, players receive an helpfull email explaining them what we need to obtain about to clarify the situation. By example, if players have had multiple accounts in the same casino, we ask for ID scanned. If players have had in Rival a lot of rejected transactions, we ask for a credit card copy. If players have had too many accounts in Rival casino and used only no deposit bonuses, we limit their bonuses in Tradition-casino. I cannot list here all differents situations we can meet but i can ensure you that, in all cases, we're trying to conduct fairly any players accounts and we explain each situation to players with elements provided by Rival. Unfortunately, we don't always have all details, so sometimes players can think that we're not enough precise, but we do our best :-)

Rival players also find that simply WINNING is enough to trigger the loss of promotions at not only the Rival casino they won at, but at ALL Rival casinos. This conveys a strong message that "winning is not tolerated" to these players, and makes Rival look greedy. Casinos normally ACCEPT that there will be ups and downs, and SOME players will pocket decent wins. Punishing this only causes some of these players to post this negative experience, and this in turn puts other players off from trying Rival casinos, since most other casinos do NOT punish players for winning, it is FANTASTIC PR to have a player win, post about it, and THEN post about how WELL the casino CONTINUES to treat them, often INCLUDING full access to the promotions they have earned from their status.

There are a few casinos that drop promotions for players who have, over the life of their account, withdrawn more than they have deposited, but this is never accross the ENTIRE SOFTWARE as is often the case with Rival

My god!!! I never heard something so incredible... I don't think it's our case : we have had players wich won several times and their account didn't block. If Tradition-casino have had such setups, you can be sure that i will have delete it immediately because it's absolutely against what i think. This measure is not acceptable at all in my mind.

The other big issue is placing a max withdrawal on a DEPOSIT bonus, sometimes a pretty LOW one. Slots are the games most players play, and the games most bonuses are restricted to. Slots are also high variance, and placing a maximum withdrawal on a DEPOSIT bonus means a player can NEVER have a really big win on the slots, AND get to keep it.

A maximum withdrawal from a no-deposit welcome bonus is more acceptable, and is the norm in the industry. The 1919 free play at Tradition is similar to the free play offer at many Microgaming casinos, where you get a play balance, and an hour to win your bonus. The cap is generally 200 credits or less.

The only one match bonus with limitation is our 1919% 1st deposit, you can withdraw only $200 but i'm sure that players can understand what free play means exactly ;-) We're offering 2 signup bonus formula, like this players can chose their own profile : having big bonuses and limitations in T&C or having normal bonuses and no specifical limitations.

We have also 1 no deposit sign up bonus with max withdrawal because players don't need to make deposit before cash out, so terms of this no deposit are harder compared to no deposit bonuses given to players when they already are depositors...

IF players have their accounts locked purely through lack of information, do NOT treat them as though they are criminals, the systems at Rival are over cautious. It is better to ask such players for the missing information, or even get their documents up front, just to make sure they are not up to something.

Well! It's exactly what we do :-P We comunicate a lot with players, so they have a real contact with us.

Where the worry is a chargeback, waiting till a player wins before verifying the info is too late, as a player who IS intending to defraud will chage back the LOSS when they fail, as well as perhaps try to get paid the winnings, and THEN charge back the deposit later for a little extra when they have been paid.

For sure! Rival system security is excellent for operators wanting to know such information as soon as the player subscribed. So, we already have some players in this case: having had chargeback problem with an over Rival casino. In this case, if player has resolved his chargeback with the casino, we accept his subscription in Tradition but we ask him all security documents immediately and allow him only deposits with ewallets. And, for sure, player don't have any no deposit bonuses until i decide that the account has a good standing during a long period.

With stolen credit cards, it can be a month or more before the owner notices, because statements only come once a month, and this is when many people check them, and would notice fraud for the first time.
A credit card taken out with a stolen ID can be even worse, the fraud may ONLY come to light when the crook has maxed out the card, stopped paying the minimum payments, and the ORIGINAL owner of the stolen ID starts getting chased for the debt. It can be almost impossible to guard against this eventuality, especially over the internet. Whilst restricting deposits to ewallets MAY seem the way to guard against this, it is probably not so. The fraudulent card can be used to deposit into the ewallet, and the ewallet to deposit into the casino. ewallets WILL probably seek to recover the money from the casino under these circumstances (as the card company will have asked the ewallet for the money), even though they do NOT normally allow the player to issue a chargeback as credit cards do.

Of course, it's a bit difficult in this case. We don't have for now the ultimate solution against this problem, unfortunatelly... The only thing is that when a player has a high risk rate, we allow him only to use ewallets, so it help us to limit the stolen card possibility but it's not 100% good solution, i know.

The problem is that sometimes even INNOCENT players cannot pass the verification checks, and this makes them feel the casino is out to screw them by making the procedure near to impossible, but ONLY doing so when the player WITHDRAWS, yet may have been happily accepting the same player's DEPOSITS for some while. These players feel cheated because they could NEVER have won, yet were still allowed to keep depositing in the belief that they could. The best way around this is to verify players BEFORE they even DEPOSIT, so if they cannot pass the checks, they can be told BEFORE they have put their money at risk.

In Tradition Casino, it cannot happen because in this case, if something is wrong in the account, players receive immediately an email asking what they have to provide us before to make a deposit. So, if they don't provide us security documents requested, deposits are blocked. Strangely, a lot of players received this request but most of them never gave us answer ;-)

What I have READ about Rival here in the forum has lead to me NOT trying any of the casinos, because of all these problems, and the fact that they detract from the gaming, because these players, once they have a problem, come up against this secret system and a "no can do" attitude from many Rival casinos. Often, a problem at ONE leads to a problem at ALL because of the Rival system, and the player then has to attempt to sort it out INDIVIDUALLY with each casino. Many just give up.

The security system from Rival is efficient because all operators has exactly the same information about each player. The difference between each decision taken by operator is a personal act from the owner himself. It's our case : we have a look on Rival rates but we take our own decision.

That's exactly why some players are glad to be accepted in our casino and they are surprised because their susbscription is rejected in other Rival casinos or, if accepted, they have a limited account without any explaination.

Most of players having subscription rejected in Rival casinos, have this problem because they opened account in 3 or more Rival casinos without never make a deposit, it's really the most usual case we meet. And really, my point of you is against this fact, i prefer to accept those players and trying to convince them to make their first deposit in my casino ;-)

Quite a few Rival casinos have said "...but we are different", however, this has sometimes not been lived up to. TIV gave the impression that they were "different", having an active rep who would sort out the issues, and gave the "human touch" that the Rival system needed. TIV is now "just another Rival", complete with illogical promotional bans, locked accounts etc.

I see. All owners are usually businessmen and perhaps they don't have the same acknowledge than me about players and gambling... Personaly, I'm a businesswoman gambler and i'm very determinated. lol So, it will be nice to see the result of my acts in 6 or 8 months before to condemn me telling that i'm like all other owners ;-)

Players like myself have even wondered about the relationship between Rival (the software provider) and individual Rival operators. It makes no sense whatsoever bonus ban a player who wins at one Rival casino, and then goes to a COMPETITOR because the one they won at banned them from any more promotions. The COMPETITOR should welcome this new player, after all, they have no BUSINESS knowing their history at the other casino, and all they SHOULD know is that this is a new player, with a decent size amount to deposit. Rival casinos seem to know each other's business, INCLUDING details of each other's PLAYERS, yet they are SUPPOSEDLY independent operators.
It makes no sense, but it makes PERFECT SENSE if all these "independent" Rival casinos are REALLY just "white labels" of ONE big group. THis leads to a suspicion that Rival don't just supply the software, they RUN ALL THE CASINOS, and the "independent operators" are really only buying in to a "white label" skin, which is run for them by Rival.

White labels, or not, it doesn't have any impact on how the casino is. All Rival casinos, without any exception, have the same guidelines and security system given by Rival. But, of course, all Rival casinos have the possibility to change the Rival system like i done. The decision to change or not the system depends on the quantity of work that owners are agree to do. I mean that changing the system is possible but i never told that it's easy. So, changing the automatic security system by myself lead me to take some risks with bad customers ( bonus abusers) and to force me to make some tests sometimes before to take the good solution, in my own opinion. It's not easy at all and i understand why most of Rival never made any changes on it...

Earlier, Playshare did the same thing, they issued several DOZEN Microgaming "white label" skins, used to target different niche markets, and passed these over to "Naden". These "Naden" casinos LOOK like completely independent casinos, but they are all LINKED back to one of the Playshare casinos, and the terms have several clauses that cover the ENTIRE SET of "Naden " casinos. The main one being that a bonus can be had at only ONE of the several dozen skins, even though each skin is "independent" in appearance. The SAME type of policy seems to be operating at Rival, except that with Rival it is SECRET, rather than forming part of the terms and conditions at each Rival casino.

Rival has not exactly the same policy than Playshare. About the "secret notion", i'm a bit confused because i don't have all clues from Rival for the moment permitting to setup a list of what players can do or what cannot do. Just i can tell you that the internal rating system from Rival seems to be difficult to understand and i'm not sure at all that Rival is agree to share this entire secret.

So, for now, i have only a part of this secret but i'm determinated to obtain a maximum informations about it :-) When i'll get complete meanings rates, i will change my terms and players will know exactly what i can allow them, before to subscribe in Tradition Casino :-)

Last, i'm very glad to answer at a so usefull post, thanks for your questions and informations you gave me, really. I hope you can perfectly understand all my replies, my english is not fluent yet... Thanks for your patience with me and my strange english ;-)

[RobWin]

Welcome to Casinomeister's Forum "Tradition Casino", your openness here in the way you are discussing things is most definitely a breath of fresh air...

Keep up the Great work there and I'm sure your casino will be a huge success!!
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[funnyboy1117]

This post is directed to the manager/operator of Tradition Casino...First and foremost Welcome and Thanks for coming onto Casinomeister.com.Secondly after reading the majority of the posts here and your comments/replies I am going to add a few things in of my own experience with Rival.

First let me introduce myself..My name is Mr.Philip Allington and I reside in Florida USA.I have been a player of Rival casinos since about 2004-2005.I also up until recently had 1 account with EACH and EVERY Rival casino that is out there.Back in 2007 or 2008 I did have 1 issue where I had owed a couple of my casino accounts I believe it was when Neteller when out of the USA.I have since cleared up all but 1 of them which is Slotocash casino only because my account gets mysteriously closed then open and then closed again.Also each year for my Birthday (which is on Nov 17th) I used to get like $50,$75 or $35 free at each casino and managed to withdraw at a few but not all.Here are my issues with ALL of the Rival casinos which I feel need to be addressed.

First SOME but not all of my Rival accounts have been mysteriously locked and then if I managed to get through to management by email I have had a few of them unlocked.Most are not.For example I deposited and played at Vegas Regal and I did have 2 names created by accident BUT one was closed and I was allowed to play at the other most recently in July 2009 with a 300% bonus and then reversed my $300 max cashout and got another 30% on top of that and still didnt withdraw and now my account is locked due to having multiple accounts.This does not make sense.I also was told I wouldnt be able to get any more bonuses at Davincis Gold and now all of a sudden I get weekly bonus promotions mysteriously but no more freebies at the moment.
I also have an issue with being able to deposit with my Visa prepaid card but only having Ewallet Express or Usemywallet for cashouts.First Usemywallet keeps opening and closing my account when I update my address because the security department thinks I am a girl on the phone when I am a guy.
So right now I am waiting for them to call me and my account is locked for the time being.I dont owe them anything or nothing like that.Secondly I do owe EWX for a check that my bank returned because of the online gambling regulation thing and until its paid off I do have EWX open and I can receive money (payments) into my account but for now I cant use it for deposits and most Rivals (if I havent used EWX with them for deposits in the past) require you to deposit with them (or QT) first before you can use them for withdrawals.I would like to see the implementation of either doing ACH like was in the past or Wire Transfer or Money Orders/Western Union as an option for USA players.Another issue I have with the bonuses...When Rival first started if you had a 100% or 200% bonus you had the required playthrough usually like 20 or 25 x's deposit + bonus and then you could withdraw whatever you won and with free bonuses or birthday bonuses you could also withdraw whatever you won.Now all of a sudden you can only withdraw like 3 x's your deposit or 5 x's your deposit and they also minus the bonus amount.I wished the bonuses would go back to just the wagering only and no restrictions on how much you can win or cash out.I would also like to see the slots loosened a little bit more.I used to play Cleopatras Coins which was my Favorite and I even got the 100 spins a few times and I cashed out about $500 a few times and now the most free spins and thats pulling teeth I can get is 20.I would just like to see them loosened up just a little bit more.
Also I see you allow all the players which is great and you have the $1919 bonus which I lost on and so did my friend.The comp points that were redeemed are also not cashable.But I havent deposited YET because I am afraid of what I explained above and not being able to cash out.You guys need to implement another withdrawal method like ACH.
I am waiting to see if I get any Birthday bonuses within the next 14 days and what restrictions will be on them this time.I am also trying to get with Sloticash management so I can clear up what I owe them but it seems as some managers (not all) are unresponsive to emails you send them.
Rival when it first started was the best software and the best Casinos out there but lately has gone down the tube with the lack of management and the lack of helping and keeping players.I think I have maybe 1 or 2 accounts open at the moment that I do play at and I do sincerely hope I can deposit with tradition if I am allowed to withdraw with EWX without depositing with them first.My account with them is verified and I have used them to deposit and withdraw with Davincis Gold.
Well these are my issues/comments and I hope they help you and I hope you make your casino the best it can be and I hope to be a player here for a long time.The Rival accounts that are now locked are going to stay that way..I am not going to keep emailing them with no reply to only have them opened and then closed again.Anyhow I will be around to see how the payouts are and if they are any faster than the other Rivals are.PLEASE create ACH payout methods or allow people to withdraw to EWX or QT without having to deposit with them first (as long as your depositing through Credit Card and making a deposit).

Thanks for your time and reply and reading this.
Philip
my email is funnyboy1117@aol.com and I do have an account with you

[Jasminebed]

Bienvenue au Casinomeister.

It is refreshing to have a representative that is the Owner/manager be so frank with us.

As a Canadian, I cannot play at Rival anymore. Is that different at Tradition?

Looks like you realize your players are your business. As the owner you have the power to implement change.

Meister members don't often have the chance to give their input so directly to a casino, I appreciate the opportunity.

Even though I may no longer play at Rival, I still have an interest in players being treated fairly, and honest businesses making an honest buck by giving us an enjoyable time mostly losing our money.

[vinylweatherman]

Well, Tradition has explained a great deal of the "how", if not the detail.

Here is the problem:-

In order for Rival to construct "ratings" for each player, it requires each Rival operator to pass back to Rival that players' "personal information". This, surely, is a breach of confidentiality, and even LAW (Data Protection Act). The ONLY time such passing of personal information is permitted is to prevent FRAUD. It seems that Rival collects data on players' deposits and withdrawals, playthrough, and some detail on games played, and how - in order to come up with these ratings.
These are then passed onward by Rival to other operators, in the form of a "player rating", which seems to engage with the Rival "back end" of that operator to control the promotions available.

Many forum members have posted that all they did was WIN and CASH OUT at one Rival casino, and then see their promotions vanish at OTHER Rival casinos. Clearly, it is the act of winning and withdrawing that caused the Rival system to change that player's rating, pass it to other operators, and for this new rating to block further promotions.
These players merely WON, they did NOT breach the terms of whatever promotion they had claimed, they were JUST LUCKY on that occasion to have a big enough hit, or sequence of hits, to make WR and be in enough profit to be worth cashing out.
Cashing out in such circumstances, rather than playing it back, is nothing more than SELF CONTROL, one of the aspects of "responsible gambling".

Whilst we have a few Rival casinos, like Tradition, who have realised that this system is flawed, there are many that just let it decide for them how to run their casino. If Rival are "calling the shots", they are to all intents and purposes, the owner/operator as far as the player is concerned.

I wonder if Rival have ever considered the LEGALITY of this passing of NON FRAUD RELATED information about players back and forth between "third parties". It would be like my bank giving another bank a list of my transactions, rather than merely a "credit rating".
The information is certainly NOT "anonymised" as it passes back to Rival, and on to another operator.

There have been many STRONG complaints from players who think one casino has passed on their player database to another, yet this seems to be what happens as routine between Rival casinos using with this centralised rating system.

Perhaps Tradition can tell us what THEIR system passes BACK to Rival about THEIR players, for Rival in turn to use in ratings passed to other Rival operators.
A player may have a big win at Tradition, and then find this rating system gets them banned from promotions at OTHER Rival casinos that are not as enlightened as Tradition.

What ACTUALLY happens is unknown, but what is important is what is SEEN to happen in terms of cause & effect.

"I won $10K at TIV", followed by "I have lost all my promos at Rival". To the player, there can be only ONE cause for this effect, their 10K win, especially if they have been playing Rivals for a while, and have done NOTHING else that might have triggered the effect.

[De Beuker]

Hi Tradition,
On the website it says that players from the Netherlands are not allowed to play/have an account at Tradition.
Is this rule still in place, and if so, why is that?
I'm used to the bonusbanning most (not all) Rivals do, but Tradition is the first Rival where I'm not allowed at all.

[LinkinFart]

I admit that I don`t know much about Rival ownership but why is it written in T&C that Tradition casino is owned by Bonne Chance BV?

Someone mentioned playing at Slot`o`cash, Sloto is the only rival not owned by Silverstone ltd, Bonne Chance BV, thats why you have problems at all the rest of Rival casinos.

Sorry again for stupid question but had to ask.

[vinylweatherman]

I admit that I don`t know much about Rival ownership but why is it written in T&C that Tradition casino is owned by Bonne Chance BV?
Someone mentioned playing at Slot`o`cash, Sloto is the only rival not owned by Silverstone ltd, Bonne Chance BV, thats why you have problems at all the rest of Rival casinos.

Sorry again for stupid question but had to ask.

Bonne Chance is the big owner "behind the scenes" that I was writing about. There are two of these big owners, Bonne Chance, and Silverstone Ltd, plus an array of smaller operators that are the REAL independents.

This term has probably been put in the standard template, since Bonne Chance started out owning EVERY Rival casino, and probably expected this to continue.

If smaller operators fail to spot this, and then put these templates on their website, they then have to convince players who ALREADY believe "all" Rival casinos are owned by the same company that it was a mistake, and THEN they have to put the CORRECT ownership details in it's place.