The CAP Solution

[dominique]

The way I always saw it is that Casinomeister deals with player issues, and CAP deals with affiliate issues.

If I had a dollar for everytime I have said that affs need to read Casinomeister to be able to make decent decisions about their sites, I would be sitting pretty.

And yes, I have never gotten involved in what affiliate media does. All I was involved in is the message board, moving threads to the appropriate forum (most end up in general discussion even when there is a forum with precisely that topic) and seeing to it that people do not launch personal attacks against each other. I don't have admin access to the forum either.
I have limited time, I have my own business to run.

And, yes, I have turned up the heat when affiliates got screwed. Whether the offending program was present at CAP or not. And some who didn't fix the aff issues got booted permanently, although that is rare.

I rely heavily on Casinomeister to inform myself of player issues, and of course the feedback I get through my own site. I base my decisions on who gets a spot on my site on these three factors, Casinomeister, my own player feedback and the affiliate side. It has worked for my players and for me.

I don't think relying on either affiliate info or player info by itself is enough to base decisions on. The house must be clean in both respects, what hits one group today hits the other tomorrow.

Affiliates are responsible for their own actions, just like anyone else. Information about everything is easily available online, and everyone needs to research before they act, affiliates and players alike.

I see the aff programs at CAP as mostly just being available for discussion and dispute resolving, much like the casino reps are here. With the difference that at CAP they get a forum and this is settled publically.

I didn't design the way CAP works, but as a user, it works for me. It just can't be, and never was meant to be, the only source of info one bases decisions on.

[slotplayer]

I don't get it. Why does everyone want something to be other than what it is revealed to be? that's just wishful thinking.

The true certification for me anyway is the feedback posts from you folks the players and the affiliates over at CAP.

[Casinomeister]

I have no idea why CM even started this thread. Bryan, you were unhappy with the first thread because you felt it was non-productive, so you started a new thread. The opening of that thread indicated that you were looking to repair the situation, but now it has gone back to seriously silly mudslinging. This is your site and you have the right to ban anyone you want...that's a no brainer, but it has nothing to do with the "price of cotton". When freedom of speech on a public site is nothing but crap and that disposition is applauded in the midst of trying to find a solution to a problem...productivity ends.

I'm not looking to repair the situation - I'm giving my thoughts on what ought to be done. Take it or leave it. I haven't seen any mudslinging - mostly constructive and a few justifiable criticisms.

Your references on prices of cotton, banning people, and freedom of speech elude me. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Casinomeister]

The way I always saw it is that Casinomeister deals with player issues, and CAP deals with affiliate issues...

Casinomeister deals with industry issues - not just player issues. That's why there are two newsletters - one for the general public, and one for industry folk.

[Nandakishore]

Affilates and Programs: What do we do to end this? If no one else will take action NOW then we need to.

1. We must accept that CAP is a combination of an affiliate forum and hard business.
2. If this construction is hurting us, we must stop all connections with it. Stop going to the CAP forum AND to all events sponsored and/or organized by CAP. Whether that would affect CAP in anyway, I don't know. If it does, it would be awesome!
3. As for the affiliate programs, they may take some actions if the sinking reputation of CAP starts hurting them. All that we as affiliates can do is to make it explicitly clear to the programs certified by CAP that we care a damn for such certificates.
4. The biggest problem confronting us is the lack of a third party certification of affiliates, programs and casinos. With all due respects to Casinomeister, AGD and others, they cannot be considered as a 'third party' as long as even a single banner of a gambling site or a program is visible on their sites. And since a certificate has no value unless it is from a neutral organization and not buyable, we should stop thinking of certifying any program or affiliate.
5. However, if CM. AGD, GIA, PAL and GPWA/APCW can come together and define with the help of its forum members a number of criteria to assess the benefits of affiliate programs for their members, and find a procedure how to use these criteria to assess the programs under active participation of their members, then, of course, we wont have anything which can be called certificates, but "only" evaluation of the values of the programs for a number of esteemed organizations whose members are active affiliates and players.
The affiliate programs may then start weighing benefit of the 'certificates' they buy for plenty of money against this evaluation which does not cost them anything.

But the question is: can we create and manage such a unified process?

I hope we can say: YES, WE CAN !

[dominique]

4. The biggest problem confronting us is the lack of a third party certification of affiliates, programs and casinos. With all due respects to Casinomeister, AGD and others, they cannot be considered as a 'third party' as long as even a single banner of a gambling site or a program is visible on their sites.

I have also always been a supporter of AGD, I think the service is completely impartial, regardless of banners.

Facts are facts, and AGD deals solely with facts, these being changes in affiliate T&Cs. The changes are what they are. They are published for everyone to see and consider. They are facts, pure and simple.

No matter what you do, someone has to pay the piper because few people in this world can afford to work full time for free. I wish I was wealthy and could afford to do that. I have all kinds of constructive ideas of what to do with my time if I didn't have to make a living.

[Nandakishore]

I have also always been a supporter of AGD, I think the service is completely impartial, regardless of banners.
.

I agree. The services given by AGD and CM are extremely valuable for affiliates and players. But, they are not, according to my understanding, third parties, and, therefore should not be considered as institutions eligible to certify programs.

[NASHVEGAS]

Bryan,
Have you ever considered a moderated private section for player's only???.......Yes, I would post in regards to my opinion on a fix in a private section but I've read too many threads at CAP and at times here to be much more inclined than hence.....With exceptions of course, it is nothing more than Liar's Poker.

[rowmare]

Like I mentioned before - CAP has been treated like a cash cow - it's broken - one of the ways to get it back on it's feet is to do away with the paid "certification" and focus in on ethics.

Amen, brother!

[GaryWatson]

cer·ti·fy (sûrt-f)
v. cer·ti·fied, cer·ti·fy·ing, cer·ti·fies
v.tr.
1.
a. To confirm formally as true, accurate, or genuine. (?)
b. To guarantee as meeting a standard: butter that was certified Grade A. See Synonyms at approve. (?)
2. To acknowledge in writing on the face of (a check) that the signature of the maker is genuine and that there are sufficient funds on deposit for its payment. (?)
3. To issue a license or certificate to. (what is it for?)
4. To declare to be in need of psychiatric treatment or confinement. (?)
5. Archaic To inform positively; assure. (Just like most other portals)

certified
Adjective
1. holding or guaranteed by a certificate: a certified acupuncturist (?)
2. declared legally insane (?)

Source : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/certified

In all intents and purposes the certification appears as fake as can be and should be placed here

http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/index.php#fw

I have no issues with CAP as an affiliate resource but that is where I feel they have overstepped the mark. There is no quality testing. The certification is misleading innocent players and affiliates into parting with their money.

Questionable sites go to CAP with their check books and fix the matter there and then. They are now certified to do what they want with the backing of CAP.

They promote some good programs but scrape the barrel at times. A banned member here was spamming his site at CM and CAP. He pissed of the majority of most members on both forums but when the checkbook came out, he got the green light at CAP and all was forgiven. That was a warning signal that CAP should never have been allowed to prance around with their own self proclaimed certification status.

Just because it is a large site with many followers, it doesnt mean it doesnt belong here

http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/index.php#fw

The way i look at it, they have a strong bias towards those who pay for a label that isnt worth anything other than their promotional efforts and duping players into thinking it is a creditable site to play on.

Dom is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Here and CAP is a contradiction in terms. I dont always agree with CM's choices of sites but there is consistency and a true evaluation of a gaming sites worth. CAP is a portal with its own merits, some good, some bad but it should never be allowed to offer its expertize (certification) to sites with a blindfold on. They only give the rogue sites a foothold in this industry which is laden with scammers and the easy buck mentality.