Card Spike

[jetset]

I'm still troubled by the lack of substantiated fact and hard evidence here.

Undoubtedly CardSpike has been up to no good and deserves to be bashed, but the ownership question on which so much opprobrium has been heaped on the CAP people - in some cases by individuals for whom I have considerable personal respect - remains unproved as far as I can see.

Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

In the last 24 hours, CAP has broken its silence on the issue with a strong denial of ownership to complement its earlier statements by "Warren" when this started to attract attention, and the removal of the site from PAP.

This is what Lou Fabiano had to say on behalf of CAP and PAP:

"Cardspike is not controlled or managed by CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly (organizer) or Lou "The Professor" Fabiano.

"CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly, Lou "The Professor" Fabiano and all other personnel of CAP have absolutely no ownership interest, no profits interest and no beneficial interest whatsoever in Cardspike.

"Any statements or malicious rumors to the contrary are untrue and unfair."

In this sort of situation, and personalities aside, I don't know who to believe, and I suspect a growing number of other folks feel the same way.

Bryan's post #2 early in this thread pretty much sums up my own opinion at present.

[pokeraddict]

Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

This is why I have tried to dodge the ownership topic in my posts as to me it is speculation and the way these things are set up are often tangled webs anyway. Fact is (was maybe as some have reported payments in the last day or two) affiliates were not getting paid and players were having their own problems as well and there is no disputing that as even posts by CardSpike at PAP admit these issues. The question of ownership, while interesting is meaningless. The only meaningful thing to me is getting people paid.

All of this horrible publicity is probably what was needed to get things set in motion. Affiliate groups organized, news sites wrote reports on the issue, players and affiliates went to forums, Cake Poker got involved, CAP/PAP turned on the heat and the owners/management of CardSpike, whoever they are, likely realized they were going to lose their entire investment if they didn't do something. I know from reading a private affiliate forum that efforts are being made and some or most are paid which is more than can be said about the last couple of months so things are headed in the right direction.

[jetset]

Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.

[Casinomeister]

Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.

I feel that in this situation - ownership is vital knowledge.

I take it this is a white label or "skin" of Cake Poker. If this is something that falls under CAP's realm I would be rather perturbed since it seems CAP is denying any connection, but others are saying there is a connection.

Some people (like myself) consider White Labels and skins to be affiliate programs on steroids, and there is nothing wrong with them if the ownership is transparent.

If an organization like CAP were to have a poker room, calling it CAPpoker.com and inviting all affiliates to join and promote would be a pretty understandable and cool thing to do. To be running a skin and pretending it to be not associated would be an uncool thing to do. That's deceptive, and an organization like CAP should not be involved in something like that.

Imagine for a moment that it was discovered that I owned Crystal Palace Casino That would kind of put a damper on things in Casinomeisterland

[Simmo!]

Imagine for a moment that it was discovered that I owned Crystal Palace Casino That would kind of put a damper on things in Casinomeisterland

LOL. You should buy it just for kicks

[Casinomeister]

FWIW - still there are no PABs against Cardspike. As I mentioned before, any submitted complaints will be handled accordingly. If any players or affiliates are aggrieved by this poker room, please feel free to submit.

[Auditor]

FWIW - still there are no PABs against Cardspike. As I mentioned before, any submitted complaints will be handled accordingly. If any players or affiliates are aggrieved by this poker room, please feel free to submit.

I will let the poker affiliates know your door is open

[mojo]

This is still ongoing and no sign of letting up soon. IMHO just the ablility of speaking freely is a beautiful thing. If parties involved have done nothing wrong then they would have nothing to worry about. Would they,.

CM, I came thisclose to just pm'ing you to ask if you could find out who the heck owns Card Spike. Could I ask you here to find out who owns Card Spike or should I do it a different way?

Thank you CasinoMeisterLand!

[Casino City]

Just a few things I'd like to say here.

The whole cardspike situation is a mess, but I don't think of it as being a GPWA versus CAP war. I think of it as being an affiliate and player issue with the management responsible with cardspike. Casino City / GPWA / APCW have been investigating it for some time, and we would have under normal circumstances have been just about ready to issue our findings now.

When Gambling911 issued an article on the topic, I knew enough information to concur with their conclusion with solid evidence, so I felt it was appropriate to step up to the plate and indicate that nature of what I knew. But preparing all of the material for public presentation and connecting all of the dots in a way that can be publicly presented takes time. So we decided that in order to get the story out in a way we could manage we needed to do a four part story.

Part 1 covered the fact that cardspike was not treating player and affiliates the way the should be treated in terms of timely payments and the fact that many sites had made such statements. At the time the GPWA and APCW were not involved in the fray.

Part 2 covered the fact that two of the owners of Affiliate Media (that operates the CAP and PAP forums among other things) also owns another company called effective media group.

Part 3, which will be out later this week (we hope Tuesday, but maybe Wednesday) will establish, among other things, a clear relationship between effective media group and cardspike, and in so doing establish clear relationships between the management of affiliate media and cardspike.

Part 4, which we hope to put out this Friday, will publish any response from affiliate media to the facts shown in part 3 and delve deeper into cardspike relationships.

I agree that people should wait and see the evidence before forming a final opinion. At this point in time any opinion based solely on what I have said is an opinion based on heresay. Many folks know I would not say things without good reason, but until those good reasons are available for all to see it is all just personal opinion. Think of what I have said as being opening arguments in a court of law. It is the facts subsequently presented that matter. The opening remarks just give folks a general idea of what is coming.

Michael

[Casinomeister]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for stepping in and explaining what has been going on. The Cardspike thing is troubling to say the least.

And so far, I don't like what I am seeing.