Affiliates with integrity

[lojo]

Please be sure to read CasinoMeister's comments on the matter of 'levels of rogue' referenced in my first post in this thread. It is not black and white, concrete, or as easy as it may seem.

Also, my motives here were not to simply target Virtual casinos, though that is very easy to do using only CM.com as a frame of reference. If putting market pressures on any casino or group of casinos were to encourage them to operate more fairly, it would be a good thing.

This effort may have a positive affect, but it is simplistic and was naive of me to think it would be anything more than a losing battle in the end. It's way to much stick and not enough carrot, so I am abandoning it.

What has to occur for lasting change, as I've said in at least a half dozen posts over the the last year, is that the very business model that is casino/affiliate/player relations must change - be totally thrown out as corrupt and arcane and be replaced with a simple, transparent, and most of all fair model. (as a friend reminded me recently)

It is win/win/win except for affiliates who are getting lifetime payouts for nothing. Change sucks if you fight it, but change is coming - I assure you. Maybe not today, and maybe not next month, but it is coming to the industry, with or without my efforts. The idea is on fire and smoldering heavily under the surface and will burst on the scene in it's own time- with or without me. It's a done deal.

Soon (in the grand scheme of things) market force and customer satisfaction alone will determine who gets whose business and how. The concept is shockingly simple and I've stated it before. There will be heavy resistance, and it will turn an entire segment of this industry on its ear, but resistance is futile. The dark, opaque, backroom ways are as good as gone.

To the affiliates who would fight it the most; I encourage you to embrace it and become pioneers and leaders.

Casinos have nothing to fear and nothing to lose - and only goodwill, increased revenues, and lower marketing costs to gain.

Affiliates who recognize the value of work and service have nothing to lose, and only goodwill, increased revenues, and lower real costs in the long run.

Players have everything to gain.

I can, and very well might, step away from the whole issue, but that will not change it. The candle is lost in the fire. This change will occur with or without my help now. It is a done deal. I didn't start it and there is nothing I could do to stop it. The revolution has begun.

[lojo]

I just want to take a second to applaud aksana and mojo

Again, this is not about Virtual, its about a fair game, period.

These two affiliates are taking a financial hit to 'do the right thing'. Most of us would probably agree that it will benefit them in the long run. How about we show them that now? If you are going to sign up at a new casino, may I suggest you go to one of their pages and sign up from there? (unless you always sign up through Casinomeister, which you should to show your appreciation of this site's work for and service to the player community) but if you are not of that habit yet, please show these two courageous affiliates your appreciation, and help them recoup some losses, by signing up today through one or both of them. I will next time i play at a new casino. It's the right thing to do. thx

[GaryWatson]

I would but Ive blown my tank for the month. I refuse to sign up through spam or banner farms. There are certain sites I wont sign up through just because I know what they do. I always use affiliate links & have no problem signing up through affiliates interested in fair game.

[USA2112]

Originally Posted by BingoT

And the most important thing in this business is TRUST and that the affiliate backs up the players if need be. I can name over 20 that would just ignore you if you ran into any trouble and this is a shame because it hurts the one's that care about the player.

You can say that again! All players should be able to trust their affiliates when it comes to getting help or at least be able to send them in the right direction to get the help they need. Were not all casino advocates like the casinomister or have the connections sometimes or clout to resolve certain issues. But, if affiliates advertise casinos with credibility chances are they can handle any issue that arises for their players. With advertising rogue casinos the whole story changes.

Some affiliates do not even have a clue they are using rogue tactics when advertising certain casinos until they visit a watchdog sight like the casinomeister and if they are willing to change after the fact that is a good sign for both them and their players. But, the rogue affiliates that have the knowledge and information needed to prevent complications for their players and chose not to use it need to be put out of business. And there is quite a few!

Originally Posted by RobWin

That's exactly why I suggested using Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos as a guideline as it is truly tried and tested over the years.

Could not have said it better, the proof is already there. To each their own if they decide to use it or not.

Originally Posted by lojo

Also, my motives here were not to simply target Virtual casinos, though that is very easy to do using only CM.com as a frame of reference. If putting market pressures on any casino or group of casinos were to encourage them to operate more fairly, it would be a good thing.

If any casino group needs to be targeted as rogued the Virtual group is one that certaily deserves it. This casino group has probably ripped off more players than any group out there. So, well deserved, but I doubt they will change their ways and even if they did would really make a difference at this point. I think the Virtual group has destroyed any chance for a long term future as the casino industry is now starting to change from bringing these types of issues of rogue casinos up.

Here's one thing for affiliates to ponder if they promote casinos like the Virtual group. When the Virtual group is finally out of business and they will be, the affiliate program and any profits being made from players if any will be out of business also. Seems like alot of wasted effort from the affiliates standpoint to advertise them. It would be smater to be in it for the long hall and chose casinos that will whether the change that's coming in near the future.

[lojo]

I would guess that 90% of players don't even know what an affiliate is and does.

[USA2112]

Originally Posted by lojo

I would guess that 90% of players don't even know what an affiliate is and does.

Interesting point, my first few months playing online casinos I didn't know and when I found out what casino affiliates were it changed where I signed up for one and what casinos I chose by how they were being advertise and what information was provided by the affiliate.

Now I would suggest that any new player to online gambling do a little homework on the affiliates before signing up and getting to involved. The more you know the better the gambling experience!

[SlotsWizard]

Originally Posted by USA2112

I would suggest that any new player to online gambling do a little homework on the affiliates before signing up and getting to involved. The more you know the better the gambling experience!

Unless the affiliate site offers some sort of financial incentive to sign up with them (rakeback, etc.), doing homework on the affiliates is nowhere near as important as doing homework on the casinos you are considering signing up at, since they are the ones who ultimately will (or will not) be paying you.

There is also relatively little to discover by researching affiliates unless they have zero privacy concerns and have gone out of their way to make their information publicly available. I think for most US affiliates these days, privacy concerns are a high priority for obvious reasons.

In nearly all cases, you can judge the affiliate by the casinos they promote. Crap tends to cling together with crap.

[hippo925]

Originally Posted by lojo

I would guess that 90% of players don't even know what an affiliate is and does.

i know a lot more now thanks to you guys and this thread!!

[USA2112]

Originally Posted by SlotsWizard

Unless the affiliate site offers some sort of financial incentive to sign up with them (rakeback, etc.), doing homework on the affiliates is nowhere near as important as doing homework on the casinos you are considering signing up at, since they are the ones who ultimately will (or will not) be paying you.

There is also relatively little to discover by researching affiliates unless they have zero privacy concerns and have gone out of their way to make their information publicly available. I think for most US affiliates these days, privacy concerns are a high priority for obvious reasons.

In nearly all cases, you can judge the affiliate by the casinos they promote. Crap tends to cling together with crap.

I agree, that was my point, if the affiliate advertises casinos with credibility they will also provide good information about the casino for the player before they sign up. When affiliates have little to say about casinos they advertise and provide links and no information on their offers 1) they are hiding information on the casino because they are uninformed themselves or 2) they have knowledge of the casinos background being rogued in hopes of drawing in a little cash from the uninformed player.

For new players who want to gamble online it is best to visit many websites before getting to involved with the gambling and learn before they play. And yes it would be hard to find out information on any affiliate personally but their website does says alot.

[aksana]

Originally Posted by lojo

I just want to take a second to applaud aksana and mojo

Again, this is not about Virtual, its about a fair game, period.

These two affiliates are taking a financial hit to 'do the right thing'. Most of us would probably agree that it will benefit them in the long run. How about we show them that now? If you are going to sign up at a new casino, may I suggest you go to one of their pages and sign up from there? (unless you always sign up through Casinomeister, which you should to show your appreciation of this site's work for and service to the player community) but if you are not of that habit yet, please show these two courageous affiliates your appreciation, and help them recoup some losses, by signing up today through one or both of them. I will next time i play at a new casino. It's the right thing to do. thx

Thanks lojo for your words, I appreciate it, but I think it's too much to ask somebody to sign up through my pages, and I think it's not fair, it's Bryan's forum, it's his house and as you said: "you should to show your appreciation of this site's work for and service to the player community", don't worry about me, I have players who like my site and they always come back to see new promotions and gambling news on my site.
But really thanks lojo for your efforts.
And I'm not looking players here who will sign up through my site. Just want to know everything in online gambling