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Thread: UK - General Fruit machine @ pubs

  1. #21
    vinylweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChopleyIOM View Post
    Sorry a bit late to this thread

    I'm a part-time semi-pro UK fruit machine (AWP) player, insofar as I make consistent profits on them and have done for years - albeit on a fairly casual basis.

    A few key points:

    1) UK AWPs are COMPENSATED, that is to say they actively seek out their target percentage and previous play does affect future play, the machine 'knows' what it's done before and also knows how far it wants to let itself be pushed at any given time. They are as far from random slots as you can possibly imagine.

    2) They are vulnerable to manipulation/cheats/trickery to a frightening degree. In many cases, if you don't know what the 'shows' are (whether or not to play), and the 'tricks' thereafter (how to get the machine to pay out before it really wants to) - you will lose lose lose and you will lose horribly.

    Sometimes these tricks/cheats/rips/traps are the result of coding errors, sometimes they're just outright corrupt and deliberately coded in.

    3) There are large numbers of true pro players who will travel hundreds of miles in a day to seek out their preferred machines. If a 'good' machine is covered by a pro or two, no one else will ever get a look in.

    There are plenty of videos of me jackpotting/mega streaking AWPs on my YouTube channel, note how the same machines seem to turn up again and again, that's not by coincidence.....

    http://www.youtube.com/user/chopleyspinach

    Here's a £156 megastreak for example, remember that this machine has an RTP of just 76% and is COMPENSATED, so you really, really don't want to be playing this afterwards, or indeed until it's taken over £300 back.

    Quite a nice raise for me though

    I used to do the motorway networks before I got into the online scene. Things seemed to go downhill around 1996 with the £15 jackpot and 30p stakes. I hardly play at all, and when I have I see "dead" arcades, which means the machines see little action other than from the "pro" players.

    I have only ever managed to force DOND to give a single £70 on the streak, and almost all seem to have been "done" before I arrive due to the "shows" they are giving, or not giving. It seems the £70 rarely repeats, and I thought legislation was introduced to cap this at 1x, for a max of £140. Good job the £250 hopper is in more general use now that all machines come with their own note changers.

    It seems clear that a general "trick" exists for DOND, but it seems to have gone the way of the old Pie Factory trick, everybody knows it, and they all get hammered.

    The coding cheats seem to be available for a price, but if someone is willing to sell, not sure I want to be buying at that stage in it's life, as operators tend to "chip" machines much sooner after a problem emerges. In the old days, such tricks could survive for months. It seems the internet made life much tougher, and machine operators got to hear about the tricks sooner, without having to spot them being done on site.

    The path to real gains seems to be getting in early, or even being the one to discover the trick.

    I have often thought about doing another big tour of the services, but with it being so easy to travel the cyber highway and visit so many "services" whilst still in my pyjamas, and only feet from my bed, I just haven't got around to it.

    I DID discover a trick for a few early Mazooma games, but it was more about following the "shows" and knowing what to do rather than making the machine pay "too much". I discovered that forcing out the jackpot also set off the streak pot, and it was far from obvious as it often did so via a "silent invincible" board following the forced jackpot, and where many players might have just taken the jackpot and walked. This "silent invincible" had to be played a certain way, as it was not a true invincible, and you could lose and kill the streak (or delay it) if you got it wrong. I never saw any one else doing them, pro or otherwise.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnouth View Post
    I was the other half of the Fairplay campaign

    Stu Campbell did the UK side of things, I pursued it here on the Isle of Man. (It's pretty obvious who I am if you read around the Fairplay site a bit.)

    The interesting thing about AWPs is that once you understand how they cheat, they can become quite profitable.

    The rigged high/lows for example, where the machine chooses the result AFTER you gamble higher or lower, can be turned against the machines with somewhat surprising results in certain situations, even today......

  3. #23
    vinylweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChopleyIOM View Post
    I was the other half of the Fairplay campaign

    Stu Campbell did the UK side of things, I pursued it here on the Isle of Man. (It's pretty obvious who I am if you read around the Fairplay site a bit.)

    The interesting thing about AWPs is that once you understand how they cheat, they can become quite profitable.

    The rigged high/lows for example, where the machine chooses the result AFTER you gamble higher or lower, can be turned against the machines with somewhat surprising results in certain situations, even today......
    Not necessarily good ones.


    I have found a few machines that simply freeze once they have been tricked into giving a guaranteed jackpot or streak If you unfreeze them in the style of "The IT crowd", you lose the win.

    There was a time when The IT Crowd could have made a fortune, but the item in question was usually inacessible due to the "security metal jacket" worn by many machines at the services, and trying it in a pub was far too risky because the landlord would be watching.

    I now see notices reminding us that "Refill keys are illegal", and possession of one can get you arrested. I am sure 99% of players will say "WTF is a Refill Key", and the remaining 1% will say "sure, stand out like a sore thumb so that everyone knows what you are up to, and management kick you out mid force".


    I see from the videos that arcades are VERY sensitive about filming, even though it has nothing to do with "privacy rules" if you only film your own machine.

    What's wrong with a covert camera, they will never even know you are filming that streak, and the quality is just as good as a phone, if not better.

    You may have better luck on a motorway services here on the mainland, as far as the duty staff are concerned "the machines are nothing to do with us". You might have to sweet talk the attendant though, but many services only use CCTV monitored from the shop, and are only concerned with keeping the under 18's out by triggering a recorded warning.

    Where particular games get hammered, services well away from bigger towns and cities are the best bet, particularly the lakes
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  4. #24
    CasinoBeacon is offline Full Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnouth View Post
    Fruit Machines are rigged and this site has alot of good information.[/URL]
    I took a quick look. The latest 'news' item was dated 31 March 2004.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasinoBeacon View Post
    I took a quick look. The latest 'news' item was dated 31 March 2004.
    The behaviour of UK AWPs and club machines, (anything that's compensated, basically), is still exactly the same as it was back in 2004.

    The hi/lo gambles are still rigged, the machine still decides what number it's going to spin in AFTER you've made your decision. There are still blocks with unwinnable gambles, if anything, they're worse than they ever were as the jackpot on UK AWPs is now £70 with a legal maximum of two repeats (hence an effective £210 jackpot) - back when we did Fairplay the jackpot was £25 and the maximum streak was in the order of £100.

    One change the Fairplay campaign did achieve, and one that remains to this day, is that all UK AWPs have to have a sign on them that says, 'This machine is compensated and may at times offer the player a choice where he has no chance of success.'

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChopleyIOM View Post
    The behaviour of UK AWPs and club machines, (anything that's compensated, basically), is still exactly the same as it was back in 2004.

    The hi/lo gambles are still rigged, the machine still decides what number it's going to spin in AFTER you've made your decision. There are still blocks with unwinnable gambles, if anything, they're worse than they ever were as the jackpot on UK AWPs is now £70 with a legal maximum of two repeats (hence an effective £210 jackpot) - back when we did Fairplay the jackpot was £25 and the maximum streak was in the order of £100.

    One change the Fairplay campaign did achieve, and one that remains to this day, is that all UK AWPs have to have a sign on them that says, 'This machine is compensated and may at times offer the player a choice where he has no chance of success.'

    I thought it was 2 jackpots, not a jackpot + 2 repeats. This explains your £156 streak

    The problem now is that the pro player needs far deeper reserves for a "force" than they did with the £25 jackpots. There is also a choice of stakes between 25p and £1. I see this as useful if you want to kill time on one machine whilst waiting for others to get a bit more play before going after them. Play slowly at 25p whilst checking out the others. I used to park my arse in the cafe with a coffee and something to read, but at a table with the best view I could find of the machines. Enforcement of the parking at services is far more aggressive because it is no longer done by the staff, but a third party that has an interest in charging as much as they can to make a profit. Some are even camera enforced, not even having an attendant to politely knock on the car window to remind you the time was almost up, nor one that would rarely be around off peak as the cost of employing one was more than the revenue that could be raised.

    This limits single sessions to 2 hours or less, or pay £10 for the car park. Rarely have I seen offerings worth the tenner and 24 hour stakeout tactic.

    Arcades are not much good, I kept getting thrown out
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  8. #27
    ChopleyIOM's Avatar
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    There's really no need to monitor a lot of machines, as quite a few have pretty clear tells and shows.

    Also, your analysis of how the different stakes work is a bit off.

    Some machines maintain one overall target percentage across all stakes, whereas some split them across one or more of the stakes, and some even compensate play at one stake from play at another stake. (So for example, cautious 'time wasting' play on 25p stake could just be enriching the £1 stake.)

    There's a whole family of current AWPs where the 25p and 50p stakes are linked, and the £1 stake is maintained separately. In addition to this, the machine maintains an invisible (to the player) streak pot behind the scenes, which is slowly added to over time from all stakes and can't be forced. (These machines also 'number' very clearly like the old JPMs used to do ages ago.)

    This means it's possible (sometimes!) to:

    1) Take a £70 jackpot on 50p stake
    2) Take another £70 jackpot on £1 stake
    3) Get lucky with the invincible pot and take £140 out of that too

    It's happened to me a couple of times.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChopleyIOM View Post
    There's really no need to monitor a lot of machines, as quite a few have pretty clear tells and shows.

    Also, your analysis of how the different stakes work is a bit off.

    Some machines maintain one overall target percentage across all stakes, whereas some split them across one or more of the stakes, and some even compensate play at one stake from play at another stake. (So for example, cautious 'time wasting' play on 25p stake could just be enriching the £1 stake.)

    There's a whole family of current AWPs where the 25p and 50p stakes are linked, and the £1 stake is maintained separately. In addition to this, the machine maintains an invisible (to the player) streak pot behind the scenes, which is slowly added to over time from all stakes and can't be forced. (These machines also 'number' very clearly like the old JPMs used to do ages ago.)

    This means it's possible (sometimes!) to:

    1) Take a £70 jackpot on 50p stake
    2) Take another £70 jackpot on £1 stake
    3) Get lucky with the invincible pot and take £140 out of that too

    It's happened to me a couple of times.
    Fixed stake was much simpler.

    After my experiences from 1996 to around 2004 I thought the "good old days" were over, and so I have never really gone back to study the newer £35 and £70 jackpot machines.

    I have always known that some machines cannot be forced, whereas with others it is easy and progress pretty obvious. I thought the higher stakes merely shortened the length of time needed for forcing, and didn't really think about the possibilty of cleaning up on 50p, and then reforcing at £1 for another pot.

    It seems many places ONLY have the different variants of DOND, with little else other than the £500 machines. I also noticed on those rare short trips that almost every DOND was almost completely dead, and that the force was pretty easy, but only gave a flat £70 on the few occasions I tried it.

    Interestingly, when seeing a machine that was last played at £1, and playing a bit at 25p, I got a nice run at first before it died. Maybe this was £1 play enriching 25p play

    My main worry now is that whilst going around checking out the fruities, I will miss out on something FAR better online, such as a 10K streak off a £5 stake, which makes £500 off £2 and £210 off £1 look pretty mean.

    Maybe G4 will allow me to have my cake and eat it
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  10. #29
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    Doing ridiculously well out of the AWPs at the moment, I pretty much have my own town locked down and generally get out once or twice a week to take the value out of the machines in the pubs here. (Only takes an hour or two, and the local ale is very pleasant, so it's not really a chore.) There is one other player around who knows what he's doing as evidenced by the state he's left a couple of machines in, but generally speaking it's all good.

    It was the works do out in Douglas on Friday (home of Microgaming Headquarters!), which presented a fresh territory to me as we went on the compulsory pub crawl.

    By the end of the day I'd comfortably paid for all my food, drinks, taxi home, and still had more money in my pockets than I'd gone out with.

    I'd like to take the credit for working the buggers out for myself but I can't. There's a dude in the UK who uses AWPs as a second income and is happy so share what he knows with me (since we live hundreds of miles apart there's little risk of us stepping on each other's toes I guess ).

    It's a breathtaking combination of what is clearly coding incompetence in some cases, but equally clearly just coded-in corruption in other cases.

    Not all machines are 'doable' of course, but in reality it only takes a handful in an area to make it a worthwhile venture. Best thing with a lot of the machines is that the company behind them has stopped making traditional reel-based AWPs, so they'll never, ever, get rechipped.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChopleyIOM View Post
    Doing ridiculously well out of the AWPs at the moment, I pretty much have my own town locked down and generally get out once or twice a week to take the value out of the machines in the pubs here. (Only takes an hour or two, and the local ale is very pleasant, so it's not really a chore.) There is one other player around who knows what he's doing as evidenced by the state he's left a couple of machines in, but generally speaking it's all good.

    It was the works do out in Douglas on Friday (home of Microgaming Headquarters!), which presented a fresh territory to me as we went on the compulsory pub crawl.

    By the end of the day I'd comfortably paid for all my food, drinks, taxi home, and still had more money in my pockets than I'd gone out with.

    I'd like to take the credit for working the buggers out for myself but I can't. There's a dude in the UK who uses AWPs as a second income and is happy so share what he knows with me (since we live hundreds of miles apart there's little risk of us stepping on each other's toes I guess ).

    It's a breathtaking combination of what is clearly coding incompetence in some cases, but equally clearly just coded-in corruption in other cases.

    Not all machines are 'doable' of course, but in reality it only takes a handful in an area to make it a worthwhile venture. Best thing with a lot of the machines is that the company behind them has stopped making traditional reel-based AWPs, so they'll never, ever, get rechipped.

    Crikey! An old thread dug up from the archives. I remember the Fairplay Campaign and didn't know Chopley was involved. So this old thread has been a revelation. The irony here is that Chopley was campaigning against fixed characteristics of slots of the AWP variety which if he had succeeded would now have killed his golden goose. Funny how things turn out. Many players railed against the Fairplay campaign fearing that if it succeeded we could end up with just random games, N. American style.
    Was in a large Weatherspoons last night. 5 AWP's. In one hour, I saw not a coin go into them, no-one watching them and them being used to rest against. Funny how things have changed. On the way there to meet friends, I passed an amusement arcade. I haven't been in one for over 5 years. Empty, the cashier drinking coffee with a friend, looking bored witless. How things have changed.
    I know who Chopley really is but have never met him AFAIK, merely by personal messages, but he was 'a name' a few years back that cropped up frequently on the web/fruity scene. I know who VWM is and have seen him but don't believe he would know me. It's years since I smashed an AWP up or poured acetone into one, and all the better for it.
    "Economy is frequently a way of spending money without enjoying it"

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