UltimateBet - Absolute Poker Scam

[Matthew23]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I have found that most players, casino and poker players alike, will never do any bit of investigation. It's like they've never heard of Google

Maybe the advertisement they seen contains some kind of subliminal message that makes them trust the site.

I just don't understand how people can view a random site and have instant trust with the company. I'm the exact opposite!

[Mousey]

Originally Posted by Matthew23

Maybe the advertisement they seen contains some kind of subliminal message that makes them trust the site.

I just don't understand how people can view a random site and have instant trust with the company. I'm the exact opposite!

You're right, it must be the subliminal messages... LOL

Amazing isn't it? A shopper will spend 15 minutes in the toothpaste aisle at the grocery trying to decide which brand to purchase -- should I buy the one on sale for $2 or buy the name brand for $2.50. That same person will come home, jump on the internet, and click any ol' link and give any POS casino $25 or $50 (along with CC number! and address!) and not give it another thought -- till the casino doesn't pay.

When I first became interested in online casinos, I spent months lurking here and other forums, googling casinos, softwares, etc. before 888 got my first $25. (They were cool back then.) Maybe I'm a bit anal, but day-yum... I see no reason to fork over hard earned money to a shady business just for the hell of it.

I think this goes hand in hand with a wide spread dangerous notion in many people's head: 'if I see it on the internet it must be true'. Some people are that way about TV, too.

[same_old]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

The problem is that companies like this have massive marketing agencies that will bring in droves of unwary players. I have found that most players, casino and poker players alike, will never do any bit of investigation. It's like they've never heard of Google - Sometimes it's their own damn fault.

The AP spectacle was unforgivable. The Kahnawake license should have been yanked with prejudice. I would have like to have seen how another jurisdiction would have dealt with this. (IOM, Gib, Malta). But I think there is a conflict of interest in the land of the Mohawks

Speaking of losing credibility, look at Gambling911's take on this last fall stating that AP will become the safest poker room on the net because of this debacle. C'mon - puhleese. As a "news" reporting entity, they were obligated to chastise this poker room and steer the sheep away.

Now look what happened

Hi Meister,

Yep I hear you all to well. Google would be a good start as that is the first point of contact for the player searching for a poker room.
Automatic warning sign or a pop up indicating threads about none legitmate companies when clicking on a link or doing what they kind of do now and put the topics at the top of the search results, Maybe bigger warnning signs.

Something has to be done- the amount of money being ripped off can surely be incentive enough to start a policing company or something to that effect.

[Bullajami]

Originally Posted by KellyBlend

Congratulations - it finally sunk in! However, this thread comes much too late!
In view of the incidents with Absolute and Ultimate Bet I suggest that the Casinomeister accreditation criteria are revised substantially. As long as this does not happen, Casinomeister is also a questionable organisation and for me nothing more than an eyewash. This is also the reason why I have moved back from this forum silently.

You may feel that Casinomeister moved too slowly on this, but I think it's a bit of an over reaction to say that this is nothing more than eyewash.

If you want to be truly disappointed in poker affiliates, go read this post at pokeraffliateprograms.

A leading poker affiliate went down to the UB/AP HQ in Costa Rica, asked them a few questions and is satisfied that they are all good people. A few of us attempted to call him out for being too lenient and were basically told by other posters (affiliates) to STFU. It makes me sick how much unabashed greed there is in this business.

[Bullajami]

As an offshoot from the AP/UB cheating scandals thread , what should AP/UB management do?

Their story is that the cheating happened before they took over the company, so they are not the ones to blame. Assuming that it is true, and I can't say for sure whether or not it is, what should they be doing about it?

Here is my recommendation, let me know if it should be modified:

-Fire Kahnawake Gaming Commission as their certification authority, and move their servers off Kahnawake territory.
-Turn over ALL evidence that will aid in the criminal prosecution of the thieves (I am not even sure which jurisdiction that would be in.)
-Fire EVERYONE who knew this was happening and did nothing
-Fire EVRYONE who should have known it was happening and is claiming ignorance.
-Make amends to the players who were robbed. I don't think a full payback is realistic or necessary, but some substantial gesture should be made for leading those players to believe they were playing poker when really they were just being victimized.

Anything else?

[jetset]

I read through that thread and found the justifications for continuing to promote UB/AP interesting. That said, I think it has to be conceded that "Beanie" the senior affiliate has apparently publicised the "cheat" stories and asked pointed questions of AP/UB's "new management" when he was visiting the Chipleader operations.

That was a good (but seemingly missed) opportunity for top management to lay their cards on the table and fully brief those invited on the visit on the whole festering UB issue, followed by a public statement.

Unfortunately, the fact remains that cheating has been shown to have taken place at two sites in the same (Tokwiro) ownership group, and that on both occasions it has been extraordinarily badly handled, with denials, poor communications and failure to publicly identify and prosecute those responsible. That has not inspired trust in either the management of the brands or in the licencing jurisdiction, to state the obvious.

This is not over, and the absence of progress reports from UB exacerbates the situation and indicates that the top brass have learned very little from the Absolute Poker debacle.

Although it was not very specific, I found the discussion of a UB/AP "merge" and new managers intriguing. Perhaps we will see a public announcement on that at some stage.

But brand merges and new management does not alter the fact that the principle decisions in this matter come from the same owners....and that's where a real change of policy and heart needs to take place.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by jetset

...But brand merges and new management does not alter the fact that the principle decisions in this matter come from the same owners....and that's where a real change of policy and heart needs to take place.

Spot on. I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard the line "But now we have new managers - we've turned over a new leaf..." I'd be able to afford a rocket to the moon

Business ethics are driven from the very top. It's the owners and corporate officers who lead the way, set standards and operating procedures, and if they fail to see the importance of leading by example and ensuring that all operations are above board at all times, then they should be selling shoes online, not running a poker room.

There are scores of poker rooms, and unless AP and UB offer something 100% exclusive that is found nowhere on this planet, then it is beyond me why anyone is still playing there or promoting them for that matter. Baffling

I can understand that some players feel I have a crystal ball in Casinomeisterland, and I can see what poker room is cheating and which ones are not. Sorry - I don't have one. All I can do is provide players with enough information so that they can make intelligent decisions on their own. Occurrences like these are frustrating since they are detected "after the fact". It's like trying to predict earthquakes; you have a good idea where the fault-lines are - but when is the ground going to shake? That's the question.

I stand corrected when I said I never had UB on board here. They were once, years ago - for only a few months, when they were publicly traded and using other software. But when they switched over to their new platform, they had a number of problems which brought on their removal from this site.

[Bullajami]

Originally Posted by jetset

...That said, I think it has to be conceded that "Beanie" the senior affiliate has apparently publicised the "cheat" stories and asked pointed questions of AP/UB's "new management" when he was visiting the Chipleader operations.

I give Beanie a few points for at least asking some uncomfortable questions, but he loses them all and more for believing this is a sufficient amount of action, and for continuing to promote UB.

UB would have come clean on this issue long ago if affiliates would have stopped sending them new players until they did.

[pokeraddict]

http://www.ultimatebet.com/poker-new...ionio-findings

They made a statement. Here is something that is very odd to me.

The existence of this vulnerability was unknown to Tokwiro until February 2008 and existed prior to UltimateBet's acquisition by Tokwiro in October 2006.

OK, so what a total coincidence insiders with AP were doing the same thing at the same time. Also if this wasn't done by insiders how was this player able to crush the highest games on the site for winrates 10x better then the best player in the world and security didn't catch him or audit his huge cashouts?

At least players are getting refunds.

[Casinomeister]

From infopowa:


TOKWIRO BREAKS SILENCE ON ULTIMATE BET

Cheating confirmed due to software vulnerability; disadvantaged players to be refunded

After months of silence and amid a growing uproar in the online poker player community over alleged cheating by player NioNio (see earlier InfoPowa reports), the owners of Ultimate Bet.com, Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, issued a statement this week.

The statement presumably marks the end of what Tokwiro describes as a "lengthy investigation" in which it has been joined by independent auditors Gaming Associates and the licensing and regulatory jurisdiction Kahnawake Gaming Commission ("KGC"), in conducting a "...thorough investigation that included a comprehensive review of hand histories and game data, thorough analyses of software and network security, and audits of its security practices and procedures."

The investigation concluded that certain player accounts did in fact have an unfair advantage, and that these accounts targeted the highest limit games on the site, Tokwiro reports.

The statement does not identify the individuals responsible, but claims that these persons were found to have worked for the previous ownership of UltimateBet prior to the sale of the business to Tokwiro in October 2006.

Tokwiro is taking full responsibility and will immediately begin refunding UltimateBet customers for any losses that were incurred as a result of unfair play.

According to the Tokwiro-UltimateBet statement, the fraudulent activity was enabled by "unauthorised software code" that allowed the unidentified perpetrators to obtain hole card information during live play. The statement claims that the existence of this vulnerability was unknown to Tokwiro until February 2008 and existed prior to UltimateBet's acquisition by Tokwiro in October 2006.

"Our investigation has confirmed that the code was part of a legacy auditing system that was manipulated by the perpetrators," the statement continues. "Gaming Associates, independent auditors hired by the KGC, have confirmed that the software code that provided the unfair advantage has been permanently removed."

This comment raises some interesting questions of coincidence, bearing in mind that UltimateBet's sister site, Absolute Poker in the same Tokwiro ownership group, was involved in similar cheating allegations last year that subsequently led to it being fined $500 000 by the KGC. In that case, too the initial discovery of wrongdoing can be largely attributed to expert poker detectives on the community website 2+2, and the perpetrators were neither named nor (apparently) prosecuted.

It also leaves unanswered the question of how NioNio was able to consistently beat the highest games on the UB site with win rates an order of magnitude greater than the best players on the planet, apparently without being flagged by security or the accounts section that handled his or her substantial winnings.

But back to the Tokwiro statement, which claims that throughout the investigation it's priorities have been:

* To permanently remove the ability to engage in unfair play;

* To complete its investigation and come to a full understanding of what occurred;

* To refund the affected customers; and

* To implement measures that prevent future incidents.

"We would like to thank our customers for their patience, loyalty and support, as well as for their understanding that we are doing everything we can to correct this situation," the statement asserts. "The staff and management of UltimateBet are fully committed to providing a safe and secure environment for our players, and we want to assure customers of our unwavering resolve to monitor site security with every resource at our disposal."

The statement goes on to provide the following chronological order of events pertaining to the incident:

January 2008: UltimateBet is alerted to suspicions of unfair play on the part of the account "NioNio" (prersumably by the 2+2 detectives who had already uncovered wrongdoing at Absolute Poker.) Within 24 hours, UltimateBet contacts the KGC to provide formal notice that UltimateBet has initiated an investigation of the incident. UltimateBet subsequently forwarded a copy of all related data to the KGC. The "NioNio" account and related accounts are suspended pending further investigation.


February 2008: Preliminary findings indicate abnormally high winning statistics for the suspect accounts. After discussions with the KGC, UltimateBet engages third-party gaming experts to assist with the analysis.


February 2008: Investigators confirm that the suspect accounts are associated with (unidentified) individuals who had worked for UltimateBet under the previous ownership.


February 2008: UltimateBet discovers the unauthorised code that allowed the perpetrators to obtain hole card information during live play. The code was part of a legacy auditing system that was manipulated by the (unidentified) perpetrators of the fraud. UltimateBet immediately removes the unauthorised code and works with the KGC and with third-party auditors to verify that the security hole has been eliminated.


March 2008: Six player accounts are confirmed to have participated in this scheme. No accounts were deleted at any point, although some account names were changed multiple times. The following account names are known to have been used in the fraudulent activity: NioNio, Sleepless, NoPaddles, nvtease, flatbroke33, ilike2win, UtakeIt2, FlipFlop2, erick456, WhackMe44, RockStarLA, stoned2nite, monizzle, FireNTexas, HeadKase01, LetsPatttty, NYMobser, and WhoWhereWhen.


May 2008: The investigation confirms that the fraudulent activity took place from March 7, 2006 to December 3, 2007.


May 2008: Gaming Associates certifies that the software code that enabled unfair play was removed from UltimateBet servers in February of 2008.


May 2008: Customers affected by this incident are identified, and plans for corrective action are reviewed with the KGC.

Corrective Actions Taken

The following actions have been taken or are currently underway as a direct result of this investigation.

* The security hole identified in UltimateBet's investigation has been permanently eliminated.

* UltimateBet is establishing a state-of-the-art software Security Center that consolidates and greatly enhances existing security capabilities. The first release of the new Security Center focuses solely on the immediate detection of abnormal winnings. Gaming mathematicians, poker professionals, and security software developers have all contributed to the specifications for the new Security Center.

* UltimateBet customers are no longer permitted to change account names unless they have suffered abuse in chat rooms. Requests for changes must be supported by proof of abuse and must be approved by the Chief Compliance Officer.

* In addition to its existing security department, UltimateBet has established a new specialised Poker Security team of professionals dedicated to fraud prevention.

* The refund process will begin immediately. The accounts associated with fraudulent activity did not use an unfair advantage in all play sessions. Regardless, UltimateBet is refunding all losses to these accounts.

* Accounts related to the fraudulent activity have been disabled, and the individuals associated with those accounts permanently banned from the site.

UltimateBet has worked closely and transparently with its governing body, the KGC and its designated expert auditors, to determine exactly what happened, how it happened, and who was involved, and has taken action to prevent any possibility of this situation recurring.

Tokwiro is pursuing its legal options in regard to this incident.

Hopefully the UltimateBet owners have learned from the Absolute Poker experience and will at some stage expose and prosecute the still unidentified perpetrators of this shocking cheating scandal, the worst yet in known online poker history and believed to involve millions of dollars.

Whether UltimateBet will suffer the imposition by the KGC of a hefty fine as was the case with its stablemate remains to be seen.

For the full report go to: http://www.ultimatebet.com/poker-new...ionio-findings