More Palace Group SPAM!

[winbig]

Originally Posted by Palace Group

Hi all,

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

Regards,

Darran

I have to agree with Bryan on this one. When an affiliate signs up ANYWHERE, they agree with the T&C which include no spamming.

If more affiliate programs had a ZERO TOLERANCE policy, we wouldn't have half as much spam as we do now.

I really don't get it. If this was a player that played an excluded game while using a bonus, their account would be locked and winnings confiscated....but if an affiliate breaks the terms they get a slap on the wrist?

If you really wanted them to stop sending those mails, then close their account. I bet that would work

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by Palace Group

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

Stop paying him. I am certain he will respond to that.

[vinylweatherman]

......and it just goes on and on and on.....


and on and on.....

Look at the first line "We are sorry to see you go but we know you like these newsletters so here is one for your perusal. "

How the F*** is this an "innocent mistake" that just needs to be corrected by "talking to the affiliate".

IF I have unsubscribed - STOP SENDING THE F******** SPAM

As long as they are being paid, this will continue, and no doubt they have sold my E-mail address to their spammy friends now they KNOW it's a real one.

Why is there SO MUCH for "spin palace", TOTALLY out of proportion to their position in the market place. This has to be "big time" spamming, not some small operation, and they are just hitting this ONE casino over all others.

This must leave an incredibly bad impression upon those who are not playing online, and if they ever look into it, they will think, "Oh, Spin Palace, they have ot be dodgy because they spam the merry *&$£ out of my inbox, and the others are nowhere near as bad.".
They MIGHT play at Mummy's Gold though, as this spammer seems obsessed with Spin Palace, with the occasional Ruby Fortune from his spammy friends.

My ISP is now marking ANYTHING related to "Spin Palace" as spam, so when they try to send me things as a player, it gets marked as spam, and I would never see it if I allowed my ISP to deal with it centrally.

Many of the other casinos that have turned the proverbial "blind eye" to spamming campaigns now have all their legitimate mailers marked as spam by my ISP, and again I wouldn't see them if I turned the filters back on.
In some cases, even replies from casino CS are marked as SPAM

[winbig]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

......and it just goes on and on and on.....


and on and on.....

Look at the first line "We are sorry to see you go but we know you like these newsletters so here is one for your perusal. "

How the F*** is this an "innocent mistake" that just needs to be corrected by "talking to the affiliate".

IF I have unsubscribed - STOP SENDING THE F******** SPAM

As long as they are being paid, this will continue, and no doubt they have sold my E-mail address to their spammy friends now they KNOW it's a real one.

Why is there SO MUCH for "spin palace", TOTALLY out of proportion to their position in the market place. This has to be "big time" spamming, not some small operation, and they are just hitting this ONE casino over all others.

This must leave an incredibly bad impression upon those who are not playing online, and if they ever look into it, they will think, "Oh, Spin Palace, they have ot be dodgy because they spam the merry *&$£ out of my inbox, and the others are nowhere near as bad.".
They MIGHT play at Mummy's Gold though, as this spammer seems obsessed with Spin Palace, with the occasional Ruby Fortune from his spammy friends.

My ISP is now marking ANYTHING related to "Spin Palace" as spam, so when they try to send me things as a player, it gets marked as spam, and I would never see it if I allowed my ISP to deal with it centrally.

Many of the other casinos that have turned the proverbial "blind eye" to spamming campaigns now have all their legitimate mailers marked as spam by my ISP, and again I wouldn't see them if I turned the filters back on.
In some cases, even replies from casino CS are marked as SPAM

am I the only one that noticed the "csinomeister best new casino 2002" part?

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by winbig

am I the only one that noticed the "csinomeister best new casino 2002" part?

Didn't see that, but it's a great forensic "fingerprint" for showing that all this has come from one source, whatever domain and E-mail address is shown, or spoofed, as the sender.

Perhaps they are afraid of spelling "Casinomeister" properly in case they have Bryan going after them for trademark infringement.

I have also managed to connect this affiliate to some of the Grand Mondial spam, and Mario said it was one of their new games mailers and not spam when I posted the Grand Mondial version - a view he may regret now I have also posted the Spin Palace version that comes from what he claims to be one of his group's promotional mailing domain.

It seems the line "Sorry to see you go....." appeared around the same time as the Palace Group rep said they had tried to contact the affiliate in question and could not get a reply. This is a bad move, since the addition of this line indicates the sender has recorded an unsubscribe request, and this makes this 100% spam LEGALY if they continue to be sent. There can be no doubt now that this is not an "innocent mistake", but a calculated spamming campaign designed to take advantage of the delay between being "rumbled" and eventually having their affiliate account suspended, which in this case seems to have been several months and counting.
By not responding, the affiliate is further delaying enforcement action, as the affiliate manager seems reluctant to act until the affiliate has put in a defence statement, which I doubt he has.

[Trezz]

Hi all,

I'm about as sick of this SPAM as everyone else.

It's bad enough being perpetually bombarded by porn, viagra, penis pills & dodgy casinos to name a few. But, when a legit casino that I and other hold in high regard are associated to it, I draw the line.

So everyone is aware I sent an email to Wagershare the aff program for Spin Palace. I received what could only be discribed as a generic response, (many other received the same email). Some hog wash about it being a media buy.

Things didn't gel, so I started digging...

I discover that the routed URL was being hosted on the Spin Palace server. With this I sent Mr Alex M of Wagershare and presented him with these finding:

-----------------------------
Domain Name: BIGSPINWINNERS151.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://xxxxx.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS47.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS48.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 08-oct-2007
Creation Date: 08-oct-2007
Expiration Date: 08-oct-2008

Answer records

bigspinwinners151.com 1 SOA server: ns47.domaincontrol.com
email: dxxx@jomax.net
serial: 2007100800
refresh: 28800
retry: 7200
expire: 604800
minimum ttl: 86400
86400s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 A 207.219.111.154 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns47.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns48.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 0
exchange: smtp.secureserver.net
3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 10
exchange: mailstore1.secureserver.net
3600s

bigspinwinners151.com A 207.219.111.154 207.219.0.0/16 TELUS 207 219 0 0

hostnames sharing ip with a-records
cabaretclub.com
jackpotsinaflash.com
mummysgold.net
piggscasino.com
piggscasino.net
piggspoker.net
pigscasino.net
poker333.net
-----------------------------------

At that point I received a personal response from Mr Alex M (extracts of this email follows):

"All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

"Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

"This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

Would these facts have been revealed if I'd not have dug deeper, I doubt it.

Anyway's...The SPAM continued...At that point it was really starting to impact on my time what with trying to get the crap stopped.

With little recourse left, I contacted a number of places about the SPAM, including eCogra (Tex who btw is looking into this matter) and both Ontario and UK government bodies regarding their anti spam laws.

I then contacted Wagershare again, however at that point comms had deteriorated, so I sent a last ditched effort to Debbie Taylor (manager of Spin Palace), unfortunately I received no response from her either.

Who is really responsible for this SPAM? Your call...



Cheers

Trezz

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by Trezz

"All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

"Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

"This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

This mailer is SPAM

Unless the recipient has given explicit permission to receive these "mailers" (read spam) it's spam.

I would advise that the Spin Palace group read up on what happened to Fortune Lounge two years ago with their spam problem and eventual fall from grace. And read up on Casinomeister's Spam policy:
http://www.casinomeister.com/online_casino_spam.php

By the way - that spammer better remove the reference to Casinomeister now - I mean today now.

[vinylweatherman]

Could this be why some casinos seem unduly lax when the spam is reported to them, because they have actually paid a company to send it out.
In the case of the media buy, were our E-mail addresses held by Palace group for our accounts also passed on to help the media company compile their mailing list.
Certainly, while the lists may have an opt out, they were never gained by an opt-in procedure. There is a big difference in law between being sent communications by a company you have a relationship with, but passing that address information to third parties for connected marketing without permission is a different matter. In fact, under EU data protection laws it is illegal. Customers must be able to separately agree or not agree to receive promotional material from the company itself, and "selected third parties" of that company. It is not acceptable to require customers to opt in to both, or neither.
This will come to the fore when such casino groups market into the EU (as they already do), as they will be requird to abide by EU rules, and in the case of casinos must also be licenced by a white listed juristiction. If casinos think being offshore means they can get away with it, look what happened when the US got serious about cracking down - being offshore was no comfort then.
The UK gambling commission has a lot of staff with far less to do than was anticipated, and they will find something to do rather than face a downsizing, they have recently found time to crack down on casinos offering "foreign gambling" as prizes in promotions, even where the prize involves a foreign bricks and mortar venue, such as the world poker tournament.

EDIT - Added spam mailer source files for Bryan.

[vinylweatherman]

This is a pertinrnet question. I have just received a SNAIL mail "spam", that addresses me by name and has my FULL address.
It invites me to a special new year PERSONAL promotion for "www.spcasino.com"

There is NO detail of the sender whatsoever, but I decided to click on this "spcasino" and lo and behold it is F***ing SPIN PALACE AGAIN!!!!

This is beyond a joke!

Spamming by a "rogue affiliate" is bad enough, but is seems some of these "rogue affiliates" have been handed my SNAIL mail details as well.

Since I ALREADY have an account at Spin Palace, this is proof absolute that this does NOT come from them, but from an "affiliate" who has no idea whether the targets already have an account.

Just like the spam, the mailshot seeks to disguise the true website by dressing it up as this "spcasino.com". There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR THIS DECEPTION, why not simply have the proper casino name featured on the mailer!

Incidentally, since this came through the post, it is NOT "wild west" laws as on the internet. Several breaches of UK and EU law have been committed.

1) The mailer is misleading - it seeks to disguise the entity being promoted.
2) NO details of the sender are given.
3) NO terms and conditions are available for this "special personalised offer" since the spoof website simply redirects to the main website, and the scratch off panel is a sham contest (also illegal) as the only possible outcome is the free $1000, which just so happens to be the new player bonus - so nothing "special" or "personal" to me.

4) If the underlying casino has NOT been licenced by a UK "whitelisted" territory, then a further, more serious, offence has been committed.


With no "sender" details given, legal responsibility will lie with the Palace Group as a whole, and they will have to PROVE they did not breach any laws.

5) Depending on how my full personal details became available to the sender (if not Palace group), privacy laws may have been broken, and if the casino IS in the EU, they could be in BIG trouble.

This leads me to conclude that our names and full postal addresses ARE INDEED being sold or transferred to third party marketing outfits, affiliates, spammers, etc by even the reputable online casinos.

As well as having our postal details in uncontrolled foreign circulation, this could also lead us to being "shafted" by being made "personalised" offers for which we do not actually qualify, and as we know this only comes to light on withdrawal. By using disguised casino names, it can be much harder to determine whether we already have accounts that would disqualify us from the mailed offer.

Far from doing nothing about the spam reported before Christmas, it seems the casinos have been quietly doing the opposite, stepping up these campaigns to include snailmail, as well as being unduly lenient on the internet spammers.

I am STILL getting the e-mail spam from the "rogue affiliates" that just "need a talking to" by both Grand Mondial (and white labels) and Spin Palace. This stands out because it counts for nearly HALF the amount of casino spam, yet these are just TWO reputable casinos. The other half of the spam is from the rogues, where this sort of behaviour can be expected and little done about it.

Complaining to the casinos, the reps here, and Bryan himself seem to have had no effect other than the casinos to say they are trying to "talk to" the affiliates concerned. Within this atmosphere of leniency the spammers are flourishing and spreading their wings.
Clearly, there needs to be an escalation of this matter beyond the industry, including eCogra, and to the regulatory authorities who will know for sure whether the casinos could have done something about it but didn't, or whether the casinos even had a part in the problem themselves by passing our details to "marketing firms".

Now highlighted, this problem has to be nipped in the bud NOW!!! If not, it will severely damage the industry's reputation with the various governments that are being asked to accept the industry as legitimate, rather than populated mostly by rogues.

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

This is a pertinrnet question. I have just received a SNAIL mail "spam", that addresses me by name and has my FULL address.
It invites me to a special new year PERSONAL promotion for "www.spcasino.com"

There is NO detail of the sender whatsoever, but I decided to click on this "spcasino" and lo and behold it is F***ing SPIN PALACE AGAIN!!!!

This is beyond a joke!

I also got this snail mail today and I was equally surprised. Of course I had to see what "spcasino" was and I had expected some a new Playtech rogue casino though the mail had the "Palace Group" logo.

But why make a URL and just forward to "spin palance"? White label?
And the offer in the mail (1 hour free slot play) was only for new customers, so why the hell then send me the mail? Someone sold me out.

What saddens me most is that this is traced to the Palace Group which so far has been clean in my book.