Better off illegal?

[De Beuker]

I'm starting to get a little bit worried.
Why?
Because here in Holland online gaming will soon lose its illegal status.
Aint that a good thing then?
No, not really.
The same happened in France last year and as a result, French players got banned at almost every reputable online casino out there.

I'm afraid I'm a bit lost at this point.
In the USA, its illegal and as a result US players are getting banned.
In France, its made legal, and as a result, French players are getting banned.


This week I wanted to play some Playtech for a change and tried to sign up at one of the accredited Playtechs here.
Totesport no longer accepts Dutch players, same goes for Bet365.
Rival casinos no longer accept Dutch players.
Existing accounts are still open, but for how long?

Does anyone know what will happen exactly when online gaming becomes legal and regulated here?
I know online gaming sites will need to have a licence soon if they want to offer service to Dutch players, and Betway for example is trying to get one.

Will I soon be left with only a bunch of Costa Rican RTG sh*tholes?
And a crappy online version of Holland Casino? (which is owned by the Dutch government)
That would be the end of online gaming for me...

[Seventh777]

Look on the bright side, at least you still have your cafe`s .

[De Beuker]

Look on the bright side, at least you still have your cafe`s .

Yeah, guess I have to sign up at CafeMeister forum to check which ones are accredited and which ones are the rogue cafes..

[KasinoKing]

Does anyone know what will happen exactly when online gaming becomes legal and regulated here?
I know online gaming sites will need to have a licence soon if they want to offer service to Dutch players, and Betway for example is trying to get one.

I think that hit the nail on the head.
It will only be legal for LICENCED casinos - how much that licence costs and how easy it is to get will no doubt have a big impact on which casinos apply for it.
I presume any other casinos with EU regulators will NOT be attempting to gain or keep Dutch players - exactly the same as France.
This could spread world-wide - I believe it is even being talked about for the UK. It might be a good thing if it spread to the USA, but the bottom line is, how much are the casinos going to have to pay to be licenced, because we all know where that licence money is going to have to come from...

KK

[dominique]

It might be a good thing if it spread to the USA, but the bottom line is, how much are the casinos going to have to pay to be licenced, because we all know where that licence money is going to have to come from...

KK

If it spreads to the USA, the number of players will increase so dramatically that I doubt casinos will have any issues paying for licencing...

[vinylweatherman]

This could end up being highly embarrassing for the industry, because it will look like they actually WANT to remain illegal because of what they can get away with because players have little means of redress.

This could even encourage the US to try the same thing, because they see it as a way of getting rid of the casinos, rather than making it easier.

The few that DO decide to apply for these licenses would have to meet standards, and this would mean giving players better rights of redress (which may also be what they are worried about).

No more "talk to the hand" or "complaining to the mailman (Malta)" when winnings get confiscated, or accounts locked without refund of balances. A casino having a French or Dutch license would have to make themselves available to the French or Dutch authorities, and ensure their contracts meet local laws (no "F U Clauses" for example). They may also find that "can't tell you that for security reasons" is no longer an option in a dispute, as the player would simply serve them with a data disclosure demand under local data protection laws).

The UK seems to be talking about a license to advertise, rather than to accept players. This naivety will soon get knocked out of them when they realise that advertising just gets switched to the internet, or direct mail from abroad, and a full licensing scheme to allow casino to accept UK players may follow.

Casinos have to bear in mind that the UK regulates Neteller & Moneybookers, as well as the banks, so if the UK decided to ban certain casinos, they could also require Neteller and Moneybookers, as well as the banks, to block the transactions.

[Seventh777]

VWM, you do know that Neteller is based on the Isle of Man, which means the UK do not have any jurisdiction over them at all.

I brought this aspect up once before regarding the Channel isles etc...

Isle of Man

Since 1999 consumer interest in the offshore jurisdiction of the Isle of Man has been intensifying and as a result it is growing on average at a rate of 12% per annum. The Isle of Man is a dependency of the British Crown but has its own parliament which controls among other things taxation on the island. Britain is responsible for the defence and foreign affairs of the island which results in a politically stable and militarily safe and protected jurisdiction offering attractive tax advantages.

The Isle of Man has an incredibly experienced Financial Supervision Commission responsible for the regulation of financial services on the Isle and as a result the jurisdiction has strong banking, investment fund and captive insurance sectors.

The Isle of Man has one foot in the EU and one foot firmly planted offshore which results in a unique situation for its inhabitants and financial investors. While the Isle accepts the need to crack down on money laundering it refuses to bow to increased reporting pressure and will do nothing to harm its offshore sector.

The Isle of Man will be affected by the EU Savings Tax Directive when it comes into effect in July 2005; however the jurisdiction has decided to apply the withholding tax option to protect its investors from loss of privacy and also to encourage the development and promotion of investment products that are outside the scope of the Directive.

The Channel Island of Jersey is also a Crown Dependency of Britain but in reality it is self governing with the UK responsible for foreign affairs. Jersey only has double taxation arrangements with the UK and Guernsey and it remains firmly outside of the EU fiscal area. The jurisdiction has developed incredibly strong banking, investment fund and trusts sectors and has recovered from a turn down in investment in 2001 and 2002 and is once again the main offshore jurisdiction of the British Isles.

Jersey was seemingly even more adamant than the Isle of Man to ignore pressure particularly from the EU for information sharing and greater transparency in an effort to crack down on cross border tax evasion and money laundering and it wasn’t until the UK began turning the thumb screws that Jersey reluctantly agreed to come in line with the EU Savings Tax Directive - but like its sister jurisdiction, the Isle of Man, Jersey will also apply the withholding tax option in an effort to protect its investors from privacy loss.

In terms of its political, legal and fiscal standing, Guernsey is very similar to Jersey. Another of the British Channel Islands Guernsey also benefits from a consistently low tax status and as a result it has established a very strong reputation internationally as an excellent offshore jurisdiction and financial centre which has resulted in strong inward investment, incredibly low unemployment and Guernsey is now home to Europe’s largest captive insurance sector. Add to this its strengths in banking, funds and trusts and the fact that the stock exchange for the Channel Islands has its home in Guernsey and you can see it is a very interesting and dynamic offshore jurisdiction.

Falling in line with the other offshore jurisdictions of the British Isles, Guernsey has agreed to the ESD withholding tax option as well.

The attractions of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man for international investors is manifold and includes the fact that the islands are politically stable, economically strong, directly related to the United Kingdom but independent from it, they ensure the highest levels of investor protection, the financial companies that establish themselves on the islands offer some of the best customer service levels across the entire sector and offer strong brands and competitively priced, impressively low tax investment options.

The attraction of these jurisdictions will possibly be negatively impacted following the introduction of the EU Savings Tax Directive in July 2005 and the resultant perceived loss of investor confidentiality and asset protection from taxation. Anyone who has assets or bank accounts in Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man or who is considering establishing accounts or investments in any of the three jurisdictions should make sure they will not fall foul of the Directive.

[vinylweatherman]

I know Neteller are based in the Isle of Man, but they are also regulated by the UK as an issuer of electronic money. This is quoted on the Neteller website, however this is NOT strong regulation as with the banks, and it comes with almost NO investor protection.

The UK and EU can exert pressure on these three dependencies, and in turn, these dependencies would not risk a complete falling out with the UK and EU. Hence the compromise solution for this unwanted EU directive.

If Neteller "did a runner" with our money, it would NOT show the Isle of Man in a good light, and confidence among other investors would be dented.

[felicie]

But why ban countries after they go legal? that doesn't make any sense does it? Here in the states the Reid online gambling bill had stipulations about operators that allowed players from illegal states currently would be unable to get licenses under the new law in the future which seemed a possible reason for MGS's transfer of American players out of their system so I wonder if something like that is happening in France and Holland because the casinos see it coming and are putting themselves in a better position?

It makes me so mad to see us get so tangled up in the b.s. like this and then I think who the hell do these governments think they are to tell us where we can or cannot go on the internet to spend our own money.

[lots0]

Unfortunately what is happening is that Regulation = Protectionism.

If you take a look at the proposed online gambling laws/regulations all over the US (Take a close look at the new New Jersey laws on online gambling) some things become crystal clear, the regulatory system for online gambling is being set up to vigorously protect existing land based casino profits and funnel all new online gambling monies to the existing land based business and to strangle off all outside competition.

It went that same way in France and Italy... IMO the rest of Europe will follow...