Message to Rival White Label Casinos!

[incrediblestuff]

Excellent post Rob! First, I'm a player, but appreciate the effort and work the affliliates do on their sites to promote these casinos. I read several members sites monthly, to see their perspective of each casino. I am limited on the casinos I can now play at due the the Master Card issue, but I still enjoy playing at Rival when I get funds I can play with.

It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that these white label casinos have no respect for the time and effort these affiliates put in to promote their casinos. It's a reflection of how they will treat the player if they are going to treat the affy badly. You don't go to a party and bash the guests in front of the host. Time and again there has been multiple threads about the newer Rival casinos treating the players badly. Banning players as bonus abusers, refusal/delays in payouts, bad CS... The list goes on and on.

In the last year and a half, these white label casinos seem to have been born faster than rabbits. I would almost dare to compare them to the rogue RTG casinos in some of their delaying tactics. The players are looking for honest casinos to play at. I am not naive enough to NOT realize there ARE the dishonest players out there. BUT, why should a few rotten apples spoil the entertainment of the honest ones?

Without loyal players these casinos cannot survive, the players will just go to another casino which will treat them with respect for their loyalty. Meaning... friendly, helpful CS. Bonuses that have within the realm of completing WRs. Payouts that are relatively fast, a day or 2, IMO, is sufficient.

I now have 4 casinos on my comp (1 MG, 1 RTG and 1 Rival and one I haven't been able to deposit at yet). These casinos have proven, to me as a player, that they are grateful for my patronage. They offer reasonable bonuses (although I seldom use them), their CS is ALWAYS friendly, courteous, and knowledgable, and their payout times are usually within a day or two. Are these casinos the rarities? If they can operate in this manner, why can't they all?

hmm
The words right out of my mouth
Of course what has been said in this thread about acting like they should, untill they have established a nice database of returning players, they apparantly dont feel this way anymore, (and unfortunetely lots of gamblers are addicts and will burn every penny they have)
and im guessing when the casino has such a customer group, of certain numbers, then they would possibly be able to live of them.
which means that other gamblers who win get shown the door, or get stalled so they might reverse etc.
so rogues that have learned a lot from the past could operate in this way.
mainly because over the years, it has been proven time and time again, that there isnt much that can be done against them making a lot of money.
so this would be a natural evolvement for them, if you see what i mean..

[jetset]

With all due respect players don't have to understand anything.

You need to understand that most Rival white labels have been kicking their players in the guts with insane delays to payments and general scalawag behaviour for ages.

If some White Labels are maintaining a fast pay-out protocol, that's great.

In hindsight this seems to be the modus operandi of new Rival white labels. Least until they're established, then the delayed payments start.

If your casino is still paying people within industry accepted time frames in 12 months time then your words will mean something.




Cheers



Dave

I agree. The focus should be on the people who put the bread on the table for operators and affiliates - the player community.

[vinylweatherman]

There is a fair bit of lying going on here. A few operators say they would LIKE to pay faster, but are shackled by RIVAL, yet Rival say this is not so, it is the OPERATORS that are stalling, and that once the operator releases payment, Rival will process it without delay. Further, Tradition can pay in 48 hours, yet is a "white label" using the services of the Rival processor. Clearly, ANY of the white labels COULD start paying in 48 hours RIGHT NOW. It seems they have figured out that the best tactic is to blame Rival for the delays, because Rival don't have reps to defend themselves, nor do they usually make statements on such matters. In this respect, Rival have become the victim of their own "hands off" "we are the software provider only" policy, which has allowed operators to blame Rival for problems that are REALLY down to whatever protocols they have instructed Rival to use with their brands.

Naturally, if this is REALLY how the structure is set up, the central player database is even MORE ILLEGAL than I thought, as it is sharing player information between different operators that may REALLY be completely unrelated to each other, in other words, "third parties". To make it LEGAL, players would have to be able to OPT OUT of being placed on the central database, and it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the default is "opted in". Neither of these is the case with Rival casinos. The ONLY circumstance where data may be shared without consent is "by order of a law enforcement agency, or a court of law" this would ONLY ever apply where fraud was suspected, and data could NOT be passed around, nor ratings be generated from pooled data, simply based on normal activity, such as opening accounts, depositing, playing with bonuses etc.

Perhaps this could be tested, how about a Rival player requesting that none of their information is shared out to "third parties". Personal data is defined as ANY data that can be used to identify someone, and is not necessarily their name and address. IF a third party Rival casino has been able to identify one of their players as a big winner at a different Rival casino, and bonus bans them, they have had access to personal information from a third party (the other casino), OR the casinos are part of the same group, having NO independence from each other.

Individual statements do seem plausible, but when combined, it doesn't really make sense.

[Nifty29]

There is a fair bit of lying going on here. A few operators say they would LIKE to pay faster, but are shackled by RIVAL, yet Rival say this is not so, it is the OPERATORS that are stalling, and that once the operator releases payment, Rival will process it without delay. Further, Tradition can pay in 48 hours, yet is a "white label" using the services of the Rival processor. Clearly, ANY of the white labels COULD start paying in 48 hours RIGHT NOW. It seems they have figured out that the best tactic is to blame Rival for the delays, because Rival don't have reps to defend themselves, nor do they usually make statements on such matters. In this respect, Rival have become the victim of their own "hands off" "we are the software provider only" policy, which has allowed operators to blame Rival for problems that are REALLY down to whatever protocols they have instructed Rival to use with their brands.

Naturally, if this is REALLY how the structure is set up, the central player database is even MORE ILLEGAL than I thought, as it is sharing player information between different operators that may REALLY be completely unrelated to each other, in other words, "third parties". To make it LEGAL, players would have to be able to OPT OUT of being placed on the central database, and it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the default is "opted in". Neither of these is the case with Rival casinos. The ONLY circumstance where data may be shared without consent is "by order of a law enforcement agency, or a court of law" this would ONLY ever apply where fraud was suspected, and data could NOT be passed around, nor ratings be generated from pooled data, simply based on normal activity, such as opening accounts, depositing, playing with bonuses etc.

Perhaps this could be tested, how about a Rival player requesting that none of their information is shared out to "third parties". Personal data is defined as ANY data that can be used to identify someone, and is not necessarily their name and address. IF a third party Rival casino has been able to identify one of their players as a big winner at a different Rival casino, and bonus bans them, they have had access to personal information from a third party (the other casino), OR the casinos are part of the same group, having NO independence from each other.

Individual statements do seem plausible, but when combined, it doesn't really make sense.

I was going to post the same thing.

One side is lying through their teeth - no doubt.

Either an operator CAN make their own cashout times, or they CANT.

Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

The writing is on the wall. Time to start reading people!

[chuchu59]

Why not post a poll in the Online Casinos section to see how long players are waiting?
(You'd need to exclude Sloto & Box 24 from the voting).

KK

Sure, gimme a bit of time. I need to learn how to set up a poll here first. Sorry, just one of a long list of weaknesses.

[AussieDave]

Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

In TRADITION CASINO, all our players are paid in less than 2 days and we will continue.

the individual casinos have Carte Blanche authority and full discretionary power to place whatever protocols and choices they so decide to make player payments and that affects how fast each one pays it's players.

We are going to bring this time frame down down, but until we do, we can't

There you have it in a nut shell. What you choose to do now is up to you.


Cheers



Dave

[chuchu59]

I was going to post the same thing.

One side is lying through their teeth - no doubt.

Either an operator CAN make their own cashout times, or they CANT.

Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

The writing is on the wall. Time to start reading people!

I think it's obvious that all Rival casinos CAN make their own cashout times but most WONT do so probably due the benefits of better cashflow on their part. This has not been aided by the 2-5 day processing rule in Rival Ts and Cs and support has used this to shield them from the demands from many players who are pissed off with this crap.

Actually, most of the Rival casinos I patronised in the past paid me within 3 business days until they changed it to 5 business days citing conformity with the 2-5 day business days rule. Thereafter, save for a couple of occasions it was never 2 business days but rather 5 business days to the last hour.

TBH, I dont really mind the 2-5 business day rule if they had paid within 2 days normally but occasionally slipping to 3-5 days. However, if they cite this rule frequently without giving reasons for the delay then it's entirely their fault. Presently, it seems that 5 days is the norm so whatever happened to 2,3, or 4 days.

Sheesh! Now I will really have to go back and learn how to set up the poll. Damn you KK.

[tradition]

I'd like to precise that all WL from Rival have full right to share information about players due to the fact that all casinos have stated in their terms that casino is owned and operated by Silverstone Overseas Limited, Ingles Manor, Castle Hill Avenue, Kent, Folkestone, United Kingdom (hereafter "Silverstone") a company wholly owned by Bonne Chance NV (hereafter "BC").

FYI, Bonne Chance NV is owned by Rival Gaming.

More, we don't share databasis players : it's wrong. But we share informations about each player regarding banking issue, fraud, duplicate accounts, bonus abuse. This share can exist only if player is registered in minimum 2 different casinos, of course.

Last, regarding withdrawals, each WL can create his own policy, no doubt on it : believe me.

By the way, due to the fact that payments are done by Rival itself, if Rival has problems with the bank issuing payments, each white label is affected by the delay, of course, and we cannot change that unfortunately. We cannot issue our own payments as you know, we're all depending on Rival. Perhaps that's was try to explain Vegal regal, i dunno cause i cannot find his post.

[rubyroyal]

Hi everyone,

Just thought i would post this here as i have already done so at AGD.

I want to inform you that several of our USD ewallet wires were blocked by our banking partner on the 9th, 11th and 17th. This is part of the VISA/MC crackdown and seizures. We together with Rival only found out about the block on the 17th. This caused some small delays in certain ewallet processing. All wires have since been resent from our EU bank accounts on the 19th.

Please note, at this time, we can no longer process wires in USD currency. Please be advised that this affects affiliate payments and wire transfers in USD. We are currently working on ways to be able to process USD wires in the very near future.

Only Quicktender payouts should be slightly delayed until today or tomorrow of this week. Our support team has informed inquiring players about the delay and we are working hard on getting these payments released. To date, not many players have been effected and we are talking with each individual player..

Please PM me your details if you would like me to look into your withdrawal.

regards

[maphesto]

More, we don't share databasis players : it's wrong. But we share informations about each player regarding banking issue, fraud, duplicate accounts, bonus abuse. This share can exist only if player is registered in minimum 2 different casinos, of course.

I appreciate your honesty. You have answered a lot of questions here lately.

But!

1. Can you understand players frustration when they know that you have all information you need and still they have to send new docs to every single casino?

2. Bonus abuse? As far as we have seen here the abuse is almost only from the casino´s side. I am from Sweden and at many Rival casinos I have higher WR on bonuses than many other countries.

That is a bonus abuse. (the latest one I saw was the 50 free chip with 5 minutes play to meet WR. It was not possible with the original WR and with mine 50x WR it was... ) Or I am banned.. ..without reason.

Was it at Ruby Royal?

Edit to add: My recent withdrawal at Da Vinci´s Gold was three business days including the email where they asked me for docs and approval of docs. I emailed them immidiately after the withdrawal was done and told them that I wasn´t amused over WL stall tactics. Maybe that helped.

My recent withdrawal at Sloto´cash was quicker BUT when I asked them where my money was they asked me if I didn´t receive the email where they asked me for docs..
And they are not White Label..

When I deposit at Sloto with my Visa last time the payment goes to same account as it does at several other Rival Casinos:

Pltpay.com/luckyfisher - 1-866-921-7401

Sloto
Rockbet
SlotPower
Club Vegas
DaVinci´s Gold

Is Box24 the only "single" Rival nowadays? Or was it just a temporary thing at Sloto?