MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: APCW HAS MERGED

[Pinababy69]

Bryan, you were banned? LMAOOOO...what for? I thought that special privilege was reserved for people like Lots0 and myself.

Oh...and I'd like to know which casino group/affy program has offered you sexual favours for advertising space? I'm taking notes in case I open up another site.

That was a good post Dom, and we agree on quite a bit, especially the part about players also needing to be more proactive and do their homework, BEFORE donating their money to a casino.

Lots0, glad you removed that reference...as to the rest of it....all I will/can say is.....WOW!! Sorry you had to go through that.

[Pinababy69]

I have always thought that when a big reputable company like William Hill or Intercasino allows themselves to be advertised on affiliate sites that also promote rogue casino's they are adding a lot of legitimacy to the rogues. Players will go to the affiliate site and see these reputable brands and then see the rogues and they think 'well if this casino is alongside Intercasino I guess they must be ok'. IMO it gives the rogues a lot more credibility in the eyes of the player when they see them like this. I mean if you were making Mercedes cars you wouldn't want to sell them down at the cheap second hand car lot would you? You would either want your own site or to be on a site with companies of a similar standing. You see this in real life when the Mercedes dealership will often be nearby a Jaguar or a Lexus for example.

I think the root casue of a lot of the problems lies with the big companies. If they got their act together and controlled their brands better the rogues would struggle to get the publicity they need.

Excellent post Diamond, and excellent points!! You seem to have a pretty good grasp of all this. And the luxury car analogy? Spot on!!

[Casinomeister]

Bryan, you were banned? LMAOOOO...what for? I thought that special privilege was reserved for people like Lots0 and myself.

Like I said, I quit. From the Newsletter archives:
http://www.casinomeister.com/newslet...april2003.html

I swore I'd never join another organization again. Since then, I haven't.

Call me the lone wolf.

/derail

[dominique]

A great post Dom... Too bad your not running CAP... It might really be an asset to the business instead of promoting all those "bad" casinos to unwary and uninformed web masters.

Dom let me ask you a question...

If like you say CAP is really about helping affiliates and if like you say promoting Rogue Casinos is really bad for affiliates...
Why does CAP promote so many "Rogue" casino programs to new webmasters?

(I don't think anyone buys the old... "keeping lines of communication open" bit anymore. It just does not make sense.)

Ok, one more post but the slots are calling me... I can hear the ca-ching, ca-ching reverberating in my brain.....

I can't speak for CAP, I am a volunteer and have no hand in any decisions whatsoever. Nor do I want to, I have my own business to take care of and work 7 days a week as it is.

I don't see CAP as a place that sorts out casinos and declares them rogue, I see Meister as that.

Different places, different functions.

CAP is there to mediate and facilitate communication between affiliate programs and affiliates. CAP does screen to a point, like you will never see a futurebet place there. But this is not the purpose of CAP.

I wouldn't promote everyone who has a presence on CAP. They are there because they have agreed to keep communications open and respond to affiliate complaints, not because they adhere to guidelines you or me would like to see enforced.

Affiliates don't start out at CAP either, they often find it after their sites are up and they are not getting paid by casino xyz, just the same as Meister. Affiliates learn the hard way, just like players.

Sometimes I see player complaints here and I want to scream: "Then why did you play there in the first place, you knew they were bloody rogue!"

Same at CAP. Why would an affiliate promote a known rogue and expect payments? DUH!

For these people, a line of communication is needed too. So I do buy the "lines of communication" argument.

Over the years CAP has fixed many, many problems. For individual webmasters and for the community at large.

The aff programs at CAP are accredited - and it means that you can approach them for solutions. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily recommended. It means they are willing to respond to complaints, like the reps here at Meister.

Affiliates need to WORK to make a good site. They need to do their own RESEARCH. There is no silver platter telling anyone who is rogue and who isn't. My own experiences with my own player feedback is not always the same as I see here. Some places Meister declares rogue are well loved and have a good record with my players. Others I see as ok here, and I get nothing but complaints about them. Others yet we can all agree on - they are rogue, rogue, rogue.

I don't see it as CAP's job to keep sorting that. CAP is there to faciliate communications and get things fixed and affiliates paid.

Individual affiliates need to get off their butts and do their homework, just like any other business owner.

Sites serve different purposes. For instance, casinocity is a directory. It lives up to its function if everything that exists is in there. Your phone directory doesn't exclude Joe the plummer (couldn't resist ) because he always leaves a godawful mess behind. Joe the plummer is there because he has a phone number.

No one site can fill the function of sorting all the aspects in this industry. Sites have niches they apply to. Everyone, player, affiliate, webmaster or whatever entity in this industry has to read and learn and form opinions and make decisions.

[lots0]

Good answer Dom...

Like I said, too bad your not running CAP...

Good Luck on those Slots!

[dynamitewoman]

Dominique said:
I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect any one place to provide all possibly applicable information needed to present a clean site that is able to survive.


I agree that it would be impossible to investigate every casino/gaming group to ensure a clean site. Able to survive? Now, there is the crux ...the bottom line of any and every business, whether it is online or land based.
The online gaming industry polices itself for the most part with no absolute regulative standards that are not conceived, approved and implemented by the industry itself. What actual recourse does a player have if they feel cheated or abused by a sites moody and self serving policies? Is their only course of action to "eat" the loss and not click on a link that will lead them to any affiliated gaming sites? Perhaps to report their experience in a forum or review site and risk being called a "disgruntled" player or a whiner until it happens to many more people? Lets see...Who is the most experienced overall? The average online player or the mega moolah mugs whose bottom line is the generation of outrageous and consistent revenue?
Any affiliate that knowingly promotes and supports even ONE known rogue site is a threat to the online security and fairness of hundreds of players.
My question is...Why are these corrupt and suspicious sites even operating so openly and with the backing of many affiliates and huge gaming groups? The single word that comes to my mind is "profit". Everyone wants a piece of the pie, and all the excuses and disclaimers in the universe can not change the fact that you are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
Blame the uninformed player for clicking on a link that feeds corruption? I think not! Unless a person is a masochist and enjoys being abused and humiliated by some anonymous money monger, why would anyone knowingly click on a link that would result in that?
It is the people that proclaim advocacy for players and promote a site as reputable are the ones that need to accept accountability for the everlasting corruption and trickery that is so alive and well in the industry.Players are asked to "do their homework" by checking out a sites credibility and history, what excuses an affiliate from that? Too many fingers in too many pies to make that reasonable?
And now to the merger of the apcw with the gpwa.I do not see it as a merger in the sense of a cooperative bargain, but a buyout of the apcw, which may be very productive and positive if it serves to prevent an abuse of trust brought on by greed and self importance that was demonstrated by JTodds steamy union with Gambling Wages.
The declaration made by Mr.JTodd on utube did not imply that specific issues would be settled or they were being investigated, he clearly stated they were resolved with the intended implication that money due was paid!. A bold faced lie cooked up to present an historically corrupt site with' a "new leaf" pemise of fairness to draw in trusting players. Those of you who are owed funds may not choose to view that alliance of apcw and Gambling Wages as one of hope and opportunity (humbly presented by JTodd) for GW to redeem itself in the face of such a decietful beginning presentation.
This is what players are given to make decisions about where to deposit and who to rely on, so how can a player be blamed for clicking a link that does not actually merit trust? The ultimate result is buck passing and excuses among all those who stand to profit from affiliate schemes.
Lacking any true regulation or oversight, the gaming industry would benefit in the long run by promoting a scrupulous effort to eradicate the seedier groups/brands that cause deterioration in the trust and reliability factor.

[Sissy]

????

Some places Meister declares rogue are well loved and have a good record with my players.

Your players? Are they the only ones that matter to you? I respect your right to run your business in the way you see fit, but I feel if one player is cheated, whether they sign up at BPU or not, I will take the time to help however I can. If I can't help, I will do my best to find someone who can. This is a players Industry... without them no one makes a living.

I may be narrow minded (have been called worse at times) but what I see is if the affiliates and webmasters who go to such great lengths to support EACH OTHER, would come together with their "pull" within the industry, this online gambling Industry could clean itself up!

The reason CAP banned and ridiculed our admin is because he asked them to remove a proven rogue cheater site. The reason we were banned from APCW is because he didn't like our views of his choice to back GW asnd we pulled his seal. No biggie, we stand for what we believe in no matter what the cost.

IMO Casinomeister has a lock on being THE forum for help with casino complaints. I believe they do a wonderful job and do not have nor want access to any of their private records. But when CM deems a casino site rogue, those who are learned enough to frequent forums listen!

There are more banner farms out there than one can shake a stick at. Does no one but BPU see that those of you with power CAN make these problems like Gambling Wages, 123BingoOnline, Bingo-Knights among many others go away?

Is it unthinkable to lose a few dollars in the beginning to build to many more dollars coming from players trust in the future? All you have to do is review documentation and facts of a site who has many complaints, make your decision and stop promoting them!

Webmasters and affiliates take care of each other. Some go above and beyond to help players. In the long run what I see are happy, trusting players = more revenue.

No one has to be "the boss" but common goals to clean it up would be so terrific. And it is not like it isn't needed. Sadly, money talks louder than good intentions.

[dominique]

????


Does no one but BPU see that those of you with power CAN make these problems like Gambling Wages, 123BingoOnline, Bingo-Knights among many others go away?

What power?

My power lies in kicking places that treat my visitors badly off my site. If they want to do business with me, they know they have to do well by the people I refer. That is my power, and I use it.

Beyond that I have no power. I can only control what happens through my site. I can't control the internet.

Bryan runs a watchdog site and he doesn't deal through marketing arms, he deals directly with operators. That is a totally different thing and my site links to Casinomeister and refers people in need of such assistance.

And even Bryan knows there are places out there that are so rogue that they are impossible to deal with, even for him.

A search for online casinos brings up 4,380,000 results. No one can control or unify all these. No one knows who owns all these. No one can contact them. Hundreds of them go bankrupt every day and disappear, and hundreds of new ones appear.

It is a myth that all affiliates make a ton of money. Most of them spend months building sites and never see a penny.

If you want to go after bad affiliates, I suggest you learn what "blackhatters" are and start a campaign to scour the search results for them and report them to google. They make up the majority of crappy sites that are profitable, and they do it by violating google's rules to get ranked high enough to be visible. They generate thousands of crappy sites and only need a few clicks per site to end up making money. They are the bane of the industry and you will likely get support from everyone if you ferret them out. And I mean everyone, players, affiliates, and most gambling establishments.

Once identified, they can be reported to google as well as the gambling places. And they can be gotten rid of. It will take you a little time and effort on your part to learn what they are currently using to cheat in google, and then to hunt them down. But - it can be done and I have turned in a bunch of these guys myself over the years.

Just search for "blackhat seo" to learn more.

That would be a constructive thing to do for you that gets results.

But, this is off topic.

[mrracetrack]

Posted by Casinomeister:

I swore I'd never join another organization again. Since then, I haven't.

Call me the lone wolf.

Are you not a member of the CAP forum?

I've read your posts there...

[Casinomeister]

Posted by Casinomeister:



Are you not a member of the CAP forum?

I've read your posts there...

Then I should rephrase that - I swore I wouldn't take an active role in any organization. I joined the CAP forum after they had voted Casinomeister as the Best Casino Affiliate 2008. (Odd since I'm not much of an "affiliate" and I wasn't a member either.) But maybe not so odd since I work hard at what I do and try to do the best job possible. It was my webmaster peers who voted for me and who support Casinomeister. So the award was a really nice thing and I thought is was only appropriate to join and say thanks.

I've posted two or three times since then concerning warnings for affiliates. Many of whom are members of this forum as well.