APCW Reports: Gambling Wages Interview

[Auditor]

J Todd travels all the way San Jose Costa Rica to interview the Affiliate Manager for the Gambling Wages Affiliate Program about issues from the past and plans for the future. Affiliates, find out how you can get $50 added to your account for watching.

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[bb28]

Has anyone else watched the youtube video yet?
They are comparing their processing problems to the recent Bodog issues.
For those they don't know........Gambling Wages represents, Cool Cat, Cirrus, Club Player, Palace of Chance, Wild Vegas.

 

[suzecat]

pffttt...........

 

[bb28]

Suppose they really are going to change their wicked ways?

 

[suzecat]

Suppose they really are going to change their wicked ways?

pffttt.......

 

[bb28]

pffttt.......

I think we think......alike. :notworthy

 

[suzecat]

I think we think......alike. :notworthy

That has got to scare the hell out of you

AFAIC (thanks maxd!) the old "sleep with dogs, rise with fleas" quip applies to anyone who does biz with Costa Rican clip-shot joints..........and karma is a bitch, i.e., they were the ripper for so long.....now they get to be the rippee!

 

[bb28]

That has got to scare the hell out of you

AFAIC (thanks maxd!) the old "sleep with dogs, rise with fleas" quip applies to anyone who does biz with Costa Rican clip-shot joints..........and karma is a bitch, i.e., they were the ripper for so long.....now they get to be the rippee!

Actually it doesn't scare me.......I plan on staying far, far away from that one. I want to be able to sleep good at night, no fleas or dogs for me.

 

[suzecat]

Actually it doesn't scare me.......I plan on staying far, far away from that one. I want to be able to sleep good at night.

No dude, I was talking about how we think alike

 

[bb28]

Can I call that my blonde moment............for the week, heck at least the month.

 

[theAPCW]

Hey guys, just wanted to pop on down here and say thanks for watching the video... and we totally understand your skepticism.

There is no doubt in anyones mind that Gamblng Wages has had a very poor performance record with affiliates and webmasters for a long, long time. And even we were unsure of their sincerity when we began dealing with them several months ago.

The APCW now finds itself in a unique position: One of player and webmaster advocacy and watch dog status, but also acting as a liaison, a news agency, and a marketing company. It's quite a balancing act

What we have done in this particular situation is confirm that Gambling Wages is under new management (they are) , that they are attemting to get back in good standing with CAP and the GPWA as well (they are) , and to listen to what they have had to say about their changes and report that to you all. They also asked us to help pursued Casinomeister to speak with them... but Bryan was understandably hesitant.

We also appreciate, as we stated in the interview, that talk is cheap and actions are what matters. No one expects players and webmasters to simply watch an interview and then start doing business with Gambling Wages again based on a few simple words... there needs to be a demonstrated, confirmed, and maintained change in philosophy, customer service, and partner relations.

To turn this program around, however, they need to start somewhere... and they chose to start with APCW due to our ability to reach a large number of people in this industry in this format. All we ask is that you listen and watch this program over the next several months... just as the APCW will... because whether or not they have actually changed will become evident in time.

Thanks...

 

[suzecat]

They also asked us to help pursued Casinomeister to speak with them... but Bryan was understandably hesitant.

Bryan has reported in this forum that he gave The Virtual Casino group numerous chances to correct their errant ways. After a short period of seeming correction and stability, Virtual reverted back to its old ways and was thus rerogued. Bryan's hesitation then seems understandable to me.

IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group.

 

[jetset]

I agree - these operations have a long history of complaints and of claims to have "turned over a new leaf." I'm not surprised that Casinomeister views them with a cold eye.

 

[bb28]

I find it a little unsettling that more people haven't commented on this thread, especially since there are probably a lot of people who visit here quite often who have been burnt by this branch of casino's. Kinda bewildering don't you think? People may think that it doesn't effect them because the video is aimed at affiliates.........but that isn't necessarily so. Can a leopard change their stripes?

 

[theAPCW]

Hi again, friends...

Thanks so much for the feedback. We completely understand the ill-will and mistrust toward this group. To understand what we're doing here, please let me give you some brief history:

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The APCW was founded in 2003 from the aftermath of the GPWA implosion with Cynthia Carly. We had a front row seat for that debacle, and witnessed what led to that collapse: Mostly the egos of certain webmasters who though themselves "all powerful", a lack of professionalism, and poor business tactics when dealing with online casinos.

We decided that the APCW would try it's very best not to participate in such things. And during our history you may have noticed that we never tell players where to play or not play... we never tell webmasters who to promote or who to avoid... and we never tell online gaming sites how to run their business. We make every effort to simply inform and advise, and if we give an opinion we make damn sure we say it's our opinion.

To that end, we have grown into a news and information source, and we try to report facts in an unbiased manner...

We have become an advocacy and watch dog group, and are dedicated to protecting players & webmasters when the facts we discover indicate problems or issues with a site...

We are also a marketing agency for gaming sites to reach out to players and webmasters, so long as we are honest, give truthful information, and operate in the best interest of players & webmasters...

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All that has led to Gambling Wages in August of 2008:

Over the past year, the APCW has reported negative information on Bodog, 888, Vegas Affiliates, the Kahnawake, and Gambling Wages. And the only one to contact us and show any interest in reaching out to you guys has been Gambling Wages.

Since APCW is in such a unique position, it only makes since that any site which sincerly wanted to solve it's image and operational problems would contact us for assitance. But it makes equal sense that players and webmasters would be extremely skeptical given the record of Gambling Wages over the past several years.

Please do not confuse the message with the messenger in this case. Gambling Wages simply wants the APCW to help them solve the biggest problems they have, and get their message out that they are under new mangement and moving in a new direction.

To test that theory, the APCW went all the way to Central America to ask them the tough question you deserved to have answered, to open a dialogue between the operator and their customers & partners, and to make suggestions on how to improve their service for you all.

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Moving forward from here:

Gambling Wages does not expect anyone to take them at face value. They fully understand that only good payment processing, openness, communication, and better relations with players and affiliates will save their business... and they must demonstrate this change over the long-term.

The APCW will continue to help them achieve these changes so long as they continue to move forward with them sincerly. If it becomes evident that they are not working to improve the situation, or that they are not doing what they say they are doing, we will abandon the efforts and report those facts to you as well.

Thanks...

 

[suzecat]

I did not see an answer to the Virtual Casino group query. OK, so you only want to discuss Gambling Wages..........................

Could you clarify for the affiliates then, who bring players to Gambling Wages, who in turn bring those same players to The Virtual Casino Group. Why should any affiliate feel it is ok to do this based on Virtual's shady and untrustworthy past? Oh, ya, because Gambling Wages is under new management and has turned over a new leaf........................got ya, but what about Virtual????????????? IMO it makes no diffference how you spin this, the pointer still lands on The Virtual Casino group. And as far as I know (and believe) Virtual rips off people and are somewhat proud of their rep.......

 

[winbig]

I would never do business with _anyone_ that has any association with the Virtual group. End of story.

 

[jetset]

Whilst I can see the balancing act between giving a fair hearing and furthering the interests of a questionable operator in which you find yourself involved here, APCW is sufficiently experienced in the business to know how these folks have behaved in the past - repeatedly. That implies a real need for an additional helping of scepticism and caution imo.

It must also suggest to you the possibility that there is an attempt here to callously use the APCW either as a third party advertiser/publicist (paid or not) for yet another "new management" exercise that is really designed to simply ameliorate a bad rep and thereby keep pulling in the unwary.

So the APCW judgement call here must carry with it some responsibility and hopefully an obligation to help any screwed players if this group behaves true to its usual form in the future.

I would like to revisit a comment made by suzecat earlier here, because it is so completely valid in this situation:

"IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group."

To that, I would add details of this new management - especially important in view of the track record of this group.

In other words, if they are serious, let's see some evidence of the latest new leaf from the beginning, followed by a consistently clean record when it comes to complaints from players.

Leopards and spots can be changed, given sufficient motivation or threat to business, but not easily - particularly when the ownership remains the same.

But if there is a genuine change of corporate heart in progress here it has, as the APCW comments above, to be accompanied by practice as well as preaching.

 

[winbig]

How about starting off by getting them to pay the ~$50K to a CM member(acedpro, was it?) that Virtual basically stole. They were paying off a 6 figure win (well over a year of stalling), then suddenly quit after only paying ~50% of it.

It's obvious that they owe this player money, or else they wouldn't have already paid them ~$50K.

 

[suzecat]

How about starting off by getting them to pay the ~$50K to a CM member(acedpro, was it?) that Virtual basically stole. They were paying off a 6 figure win (well over a year of stalling), then suddenly quit after only paying ~50% of it.

It's obvious that they owe this player money, or else they wouldn't have already paid them ~$50K.

Even if the line starts (time-wise) with acepedro......it's gonna be a long damn line.......

 

[winbig]

For those of you that aren't familiar with acepedro (thanks, suze ), here's a few threads to brush up on:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...-owes-me-134-350-20.13415/?highlight=acepedro

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ithdraw-my-winnings.16966/?highlight=acepedro

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...that-44k-you-owe-me.19963/?highlight=acepedro

 

[KasinoKing]

Can a leopard change their stripes?

Very very unlikely; A Tiger has stripes - a Leopard has spots!


And since TheAuditor/TheAPCW (is that J Todd?) has 'cut & pasted' the same post in several places, here's my 'cut & pasted' reply at WOL:-

There is no doubt in anyones mind that Gambling Wages has had a very poor performance record with affiliates and webmasters for a long, long time...

Who gives a flying toss about affiliates & webmasters getting paid???
It's the PLAYERS who need to have their accounts sorted out.
Stop conning them, ripping them off, delaying payments, etc...
When players win, pay them quickly (i.e. within 4 days) and in FULL - none of this $2000/week $4000/month bullcrap!

Anyway, who runs these casinos - Gambling Wages?
If they don't run the casinos how can they make ANY promises to start treating players better?

To turn this program around, however, they need to start somewhere... and they chose to start with APCW due to our ability to reach a large number of people in this industry in this format. All we ask is that you listen and watch this program over the next several months... just as the APCW will... because whether or not they have actually changed will become evident in time.

I agree with that (I'm all for second chances) - give them time to prove they can turn it round. I would say at least 6 months.
And THEN start telling the world via your far reaching network.
Jumping straight in just because the 'former scum' have a few new people on board is seriously jumping the gun IMHO.

My 2c.

 

[winbig]

I agree with KK.

If I were in your shoes I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

They've been fcking players (probably affiliates as well) for years, and now all of a sudden they've changed their ways? You're going to take their word for it? Change doesn't happen overnight. Let them change, THEN enter into a business relationship with them.

I have a bad feeling about this, and hope you don't get screwed (credibility & financially) in the process.

Please remember that these are only heart-felt suggestions, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your business.

 

[suzecat]

Well, I'm just gonna jump in and speculate here (based on a few years of first hand player knowledge with Virtual).................

Suppose that Virtual bought up a stable of casinos that had a rep as bad as their own,

To market these new casinos, Virtual took some care in NOT revealing they were part of the Virtual group, but rather, through some creative imaging, tried to make the public believe they were operated by unrelated worldwide business interests,

Simultaneous to the above, Virtual, err Gambling Wages, solicited the services of a well known webmaster to help them "clean up their act" and convince affiliates to give them a new go,

So if this plan is successful, the affiliates will market the hell out of the "new and improved" casinos, bring in loads of new players (and hope like hell they get paid),

And all is well until ................... next year, when we'll hear this same pitch all over again after Virtual has stiffed some winners/affiliates, big and small, and managed to get re-re-re-rogued.

Meanwhile, Virtual has managed to make loads of money - even recouping their investment for the stable of casinos - and so what about the bad rep? Been there before................

 

[bb28]

I also agree with KK and winbig, except for the part about second chances.......why should they deserve anymore? Haven't they had more than enough?
IMO, it's all about credibility and we all know that their past reputation does NOT give them any credibility at all. They have a clear and repeated history of ripping people off.....be it players and/or affiliates.

I agree with KK.

If I were in your shoes I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

They've been fcking players (probably affiliates as well) for years, and now all of a sudden they've changed their ways? You're going to take their word for it? Change doesn't happen overnight. Let them change, THEN enter into a business relationship with them.

I have a bad feeling about this, and hope you don't get screwed (credibility & financially) in the process.

Please remember that these are only heart-felt suggestions, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your business.

 

[bryand]

I find it a little unsettling that more people haven't commented on this thread, especially since there are probably a lot of people who visit here quite often who have been burnt by this branch of casino's. Kinda bewildering don't you think? People may think that it doesn't effect them because the video is aimed at affiliates.........but that isn't necessarily so. Can a leopard change their stripes?

Seems no one wanted to comment here either.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...weekly-08-08-08-breaking-industry-news.26185/

 

[theAPCW]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is exactly what I wanted to see. Let's get every old question and concern out into the light because I will bring each concern, gripe, bitch, payment issue, and rip-off accusation to them personally.

Anyone in this industry who has known me for a while knows that (as a webmaster) my former posting name was "Integrity", and that the title fits. I understand the anger and the lashing out in this thread --- I actually expected it to be far worse than it is --- but APCW has grown into this type of liaison/consumer-protection organization in the post-UIGEA era of the industry.

...I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

That's what the old GPWA would have done, too... but we try to be different. First of all, the miniscule amount they pay for membership with us is the same as any other member and not a penny more. Second, we deliberatly keep our fees low so that no one client ever becomes too important to us. And third, if and/or when it becomes evident that the APCW/client relationship with Gambling Wages needs to be terminated we can do so without it affecting our operations.

I suppose the one thing I want you guys to realize is that the APCW is not simply going to market for Gambling Wages blindly. Did you watch the interview? We rightfully stated that it was a good thing they contacted us and openned their doors, but it was not an endorsement of their past. We asked them point blank about their past issues and slow payments... we stated that we didn't expect you guys to take them at face value... We aked everyone to contact us or Gambling Wages with issues and problems... and we told you we were going back to Costa Rica in a month or so to continue to work on these issues.

Bottom line is this: If they can change, great. It has to start somewhere, so let's see if this is it. If they can get their stuff together and the APCW can help get some people paid, that's wonderful. If not, then the we will tell you all the truth and be done with them... period. There is no amount of money that would change that.

To that end, we're making notes on every question and concern you are posting here (Virtual connections; ownership; Warren Cloud; $50k owed). It's not my position to answer most of these (it would be speculative), but I will sure as hell bring them to Gambling Wages. So please, do not hesitate to contact me, our Auditor, or Gambling Wages with more questions or past issues.

The truth is we're simply trying to do the best we can with a very volital situation. We may not recover every penny that's owed to players by having this open dialogue with Gambling Wages. But I guarantee you we will never recover anything if we don't talk to them.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

You may believe whatever you wish. We all know that Bryan is watching this thread, and if he thought we were selling out for these guys I believe he would say so and shut this down. If he's willing to listen and watch and see what happens, maybe you should too.

Thanks... we are on your side. Hopefully you will see that eventually.

 

[lots0]

We all know that Bryan is watching this thread, and if he thought we were selling out for these guys I believe he would say so and shut this down. If he's willing to listen and watch and see what happens, maybe you should too.

Bryan is not around right now, he is taking care of personal business.

 

[winbig]

We'll see, but I'll bet the house that nobody from CM will give Virtual another chance. They've burned their bridges here. You can thank Danny for that.

 

[bryand]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is exactly what I wanted to see. Let's get every old question and concern out into the light because I will bring each concern, gripe, bitch, payment issue, and rip-off accusation to them personally

I would appreciate your relaying to them that spam phone calls after repeated requests to stop is not helping their case.

 

[theAPCW]

...I'll bet the house that nobody from CM will give Virtual another chance. They've burned their bridges here. You can thank Danny for that.

You know what, Win Big? I think it's perfectly OK and understandable to feel that way. Some people will need to see some tangible evidence, and we hope to provide you with that.

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

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I would appreciate your relaying to them that spam phone calls after repeated requests to stop is not helping their case.

I most certainly will. Do you have a phone number or a name associated with the calls? Many sites use agencies to make follow-up calls as well as get feedback and solicit. If you have any info on the caller that would help =0)


------------------------------------------------------------

Bryan is not around right now, he is taking care of personal business.

Oh, ok... thanks for the info. When he returns I respect his opinions and welcome his input on this issue. I am pretty certain that he has little or no interest in a dialouge with this group. But I am also certain he may have a few good questions for them! =0)

I consider Bryan a friend of the industry , a friend of the APCW, and a friend to me personally. We've helped one another many times in the past and always catch up at conferences. I look forward to hearing from him on this.

 

[bryand]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

 

[suzecat]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

Ditto, Ditto, and Ditto................

 

[theAPCW]

OK, so I am assuming these are pre-recorded messages set on an auto-dialer?

If so, that would really tick me off as well...

 

[bryand]

OK, so I am assuming these are pre-recorded messages set on an auto-dialer?

If so, that would really tick me off as well...

Yes and yes.

 

[bb28]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

I'm sooo glad you brought that up.......I mentioned it on another forum. Those phone calls.........really, really gripe my a&*! And you can bet they are still doing it.........I got one this past weekend and it's been a long, long time since I played there. Not only that.........I've emailed and asked them to stop with no success........I even called and was very rudely hung up about 2 months ago. Spam is bad enough but a phone call..........very intrusive and I've NEVER had any other casino phone me other than this group.
Also.......the new Gambling Wages rep over at CAP talked about how they phone their players to try to keep them happy........what a load of BS!!!! This post was in the last few days. Here is the direct quote. "Players here are taken care of extremely well. We have a department for player retention that takes care of calling all of our customers and making sure that they are happy and offer them incentives."

 

[suzecat]

I'm sooo glad you brought that up.......I mentioned it on another forum. Those phone calls.........really, really gripe my a&*! And you can bet they are still doing it.........I got one this past weekend and it's been a long, long time since I played there. Not only that.........I've emailed and asked them to stop with no success........I even called and was very rudely hung up about 2 months ago. Spam is bad enough but a phone call..........very intrusive and I've NEVER had any other casino phone me other than this group.
Also.......the new Gambling Wages rep over at CAP talked about how they phone their players to try to keep them happy........what a load of BS!!!! This post was in the last few days. Here is the direct quote. "Players here are taken care of extremely well. We have a department for player retention that takes care of calling all of our customers and making sure that they are happy and offer them incentives."

*cough* BS *cough* How does a PRE-RECORDED message ascertain that a freakin player is happy???

 

[suzecat]

I consider Bryan a friend of the industry , a friend of the APCW, and a friend to me personally. We've helped one another many times in the past and always catch up at conferences. I look forward to hearing from him on this.

I can't recall seeing a "full frontal" of CM's face.................always thought he preferred the "Wilson" method.....

 

[theAPCW]

I can't recall seeing a "full frontal" of CM's face.................always thought he preferred the "Wilson" method.....

Hmmm... maybe I should take that down? I thought it would be ok to post it since it's been published on CAP sites, and I thought he was doing video now?

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Part of Gambling Wages problem (I believe) is what I saw when I was down there. They truly believe they are trying to doing things the right way when they call players up. They admit that they've never had a REAL Public Relations person. There's no doubt a lot of work to be done here.

 

[suzecat]

Hmmm... maybe I should take that down? I thought it would be ok to post it since it's been published on CAP sites, and I thought he was doing video now?

Haven't seen a video webcast yet that had Bryan's pic (for more than a hundredth of a second). Due to family matters Bryan has been gone for awhile and so may not be working on forum stuff (due to time constraints). As far as CAP, the affiliates who attend no doubt know what Bryan looks like so posting it on CAP seems to make sense. Just saying that has not been Bryan's usual MO here at the forum.

 

[swampwitch]

The video is not journalism.
There is no real fact finding.
There is no one to take the side of the player.
There is only one "perspective".

This is a money making promotion, plain and simple....for the APCW, and for Gambling Wages.

This is, in short, an infomercial...an infomercial that is using Casinomeister as free advertising. The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

 

[winbig]

You know what, Win Big? I think it's perfectly OK and understandable to feel that way. Some people will need to see some tangible evidence, and we hope to provide you with that.

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

Honestly, take a look at it from his point of view..

If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to pay out $1,000 to get $100,000 in additional revenue from those players that saw that someone got paid and give them another chance? I sure would.

Call my cynical if you wish, but there has been countless reports of a few (less than a handful) players that would be paid by Virtual, then come here to the forum and praise them to high heaven. For a blackhat operation, this was an excellent marketing ploy on their part. The few people they did pay were simply pawns in Virtual's game.

I most certainly will. Do you have a phone number or a name associated with the calls? Many sites use agencies to make follow-up calls as well as get feedback and solicit. If you have any info on the caller that would help =0)

That wasn't me, someone else said that

PS: That's not Bryan, that's George Clooney

 

[KasinoKing]

The video is not journalism.
There is no real fact finding.
There is no one to take the side of the player.
There is only one "perspective".

This is a money making promotion, plain and simple....for the APCW, and for Gambling Wages.

This is, in short, an infomercial...an infomercial that is using Casinomeister as free advertising. The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

I agree 1000% :notworthy

KK

 

[bb28]

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

------------------------------------------------------------

]

$1000 to them ......that is like $1.00 to me, get my point?

 

[Sassy1]

The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

EXACTLY! It is reminiscent of a political campaign where the politicians have their pictures taken with important people to garner support from those who trust or like that important person in the photo. What's the expression, a picture is worth 1,000 words? The moment I saw the picture my first impression was, WOW, he's making it seem like Bryan is on the bandwagon. If he's not, the picture wasn't appropriate.

Do you have any pictures of yourself holding any babies, APCW? That might be a good next step.

 

[theAPCW]

Well, we tried...

The APCW's intentions in this entire undertaking were always pure. We had only the best motivations going down there, doing the interview, and posting it. We truly wanted to gather your complaints and opinions and make positive changes for the industry.

For the past three days I've been professional, explained our position at great length, and been very respectful of everyones feelings and opinions... no matter how insulting some of the comments have been to me personally and professionally.

Today, however, it's painfuly obvious what a complete waste of time it has been coming here. Players on message boards are the most cannibalistic in the industry, and you have finally driven away someone who was honestly willing to fight for you, and even hand carry your complaints, needs, and wants all the way to Central America to get a resolution.

The APCW has always had an outstanding reputation for integrity and standing up for what's right. We have been at the very front of the UIGEA battle since before most people knew there was a battle. We've put our asses in the line of fire over and over again with little thanks and without asking for thanks.

Outside of Bryan and ourselves, no one in this industry lifts a finger to help players because they don't give a damn about you or your issues. The people who work for the APCW are some of the most under-paid in online gaming because they work for players and webmasters without taking the easy payoffs from casinos while hiding behind anonymous websites.

Perhaps just one of you could have done a bit of research on APCW before passing judgement and stoning us. If you had done so, you would have found a huge body of work that was completely dedicated to doing the right thing for you guys.

It's easy to do the wrong thing... Difficult to do the right thing... And if our motivations had been anything other than genuine I would have never come here to listen to you guys because I wouldn't have cared. It's times like this when I wonder why we even go to all the trouble...

Now go ahead, rip this post apart, and make it into whatever you need it to be so that you feel justified. I'll never see it anyway.

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Bryan... sorry for any disruption on your boards. I tried to edit my last post and remove the picture but I could not. I hope you and your family are alright, and I am still more than happy to help you with your project. See you soon, my friend... but not on this board, sir....

 

[winbig]

I had always believed in the APCW, up until you started promoting GW. (Coincidence? The initials should have been a red flag right there!! ) Your previous work was great, but now...

 

[suzecat]

theAPCW, I really hope you see this post because it is genuine and heartfelt..............the tone of the posts you have found objectionable are clearly proof of how we truly feel about Virtual, their clones, their affiliates, their processors, their mothers, dogs, relatives............or anything/one else that is associated in any way to them. This is a tough crowd, no doubt.......it was rather crazy/brave of you, IMO, to even attempt what you tried to accomplish for Virtual. Yes, for Virtual. I suspect you hit a brick wall when attempting to get our questions/concerns answered by them. We have been there and experienced that! So I suspect you now have first hand knowledge of how low they will go to pump up their business. Truly sorry if you were their latest victim. I wish you the best.


PS: I believe you can delete the pic in the attachments area of your user control panel.

 

[bb28]

To APCW:
I'm sorry that you feel that you wasted your time and we didn't drive you away.......you are choosing to leave. There is a difference. You should have had the foresight to know that this was going to be a very sticky issue, especially here......because there are many who have been burnt with this group and those that haven't been personally burnt and have been around any length of time......certainly know some of the horror stories. Perhaps you should have came here with a thicker skin and not ran away when the going got tough. It's easier that way isn't it and what kind of message does that send?

 

[jetset]

Well, we tried...

The APCW's intentions in this entire undertaking were always pure. We had only the best motivations going down there, doing the interview, and posting it. We truly wanted to gather your complaints and opinions and make positive changes for the industry.

For the past three days I've been professional, explained our position at great length, and been very respectful of everyones feelings and opinions... no matter how insulting some of the comments have been to me personally and professionally.

Today, however, it's painfuly obvious what a complete waste of time it has been coming here. Players on message boards are the most cannibalistic in the industry, and you have finally driven away someone who was honestly willing to fight for you, and even hand carry your complaints, needs, and wants all the way to Central America to get a resolution.

The APCW has always had an outstanding reputation for integrity and standing up for what's right. We have been at the very front of the UIGEA battle since before most people knew there was a battle. We've put our asses in the line of fire over and over again with little thanks and without asking for thanks.

Outside of Bryan and ourselves, no one in this industry lifts a finger to help players because they don't give a damn about you or your issues. The people who work for the APCW are some of the most under-paid in online gaming because they work for players and webmasters without taking the easy payoffs from casinos while hiding behind anonymous websites.

Perhaps just one of you could have done a bit of research on APCW before passing judgement and stoning us. If you had done so, you would have found a huge body of work that was completely dedicated to doing the right thing for you guys.

It's easy to do the wrong thing... Difficult to do the right thing... And if our motivations had been anything other than genuine I would have never come here to listen to you guys because I wouldn't have cared. It's times like this when I wonder why we even go to all the trouble...

Now go ahead, rip this post apart, and make it into whatever you need it to be so that you feel justified. I'll never see it anyway.

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Bryan... sorry for any disruption on your boards. I tried to edit my last post and remove the picture but I could not. I hope you and your family are alright, and I am still more than happy to help you with your project. See you soon, my friend... but not on this board, sir....

Well, I wouldn't say it was a complete waste of time - you've delivered another opportunity for players to make their true feelings known about this Costa Rican crew, and given further cautionary publicity on Virtual that might even save some poor newbie from getting screwed.

I have to say that all this patting yourself on the back doesn't sit well with me, either - if you're helping aggrieved players with those 'pure' intentions just get on with it and forego the self-praise. The satisfaction of seeing the right thing done should be sufficient reward.