888.com aka Cassava Enterprises aka CON

[Professor]

Is there no way that senior affiliate representatives could suggest to 888.com's top management some sort of face to face discussion?

We have asked Nicolas of 888 to return to CAP as a guest and hash things out, as Jetset said it's in everyones best interest to come to a resolution whereby the content theft, spamming and DDOS attacks come to an end and honest Affiliates can once again partner with 888 casino and Pacific Poker.

I hope 888 takes us up on that offer. I also have no problem meeting with them in a round table type setting to discuss this. While I dont want to wait months to do it, I can suggest we have a panel discussion at CAC in Las Vegas if that's the first time we can assemble everyone.

[jetset]

Thanks for that, Professor: as one of the affiliates perceived by most to be a leader in the sector it is reassuring to see such a preparedness to engage with 888.com in a representative and businesslike manner.

Speaking personally, I would avoid the message boards as a venue for a serious and reconciliatory formal discussion of the issues, because as we all know this can so quickly degenerate into a bunfight that at the end of the day serves noone.

So, again in my personal opinion I would guess that your suggestion of a face-to-face at Vegas is probably the more viable option. In the meantime a representative group from the affiliate community could perhaps profitably spend the time getting 888.com to participate at a senior level and agree an agenda?

I would like to reiterate two points, however:

It needs to be an engagement of equals and kept as businesslike and calm as possible. By that I mean that neither side should enter this exercise with the attitude that it is *superior* or in authority over the other.

Any ongoing debate needs to be between the same hopefully senior people on both sides for consistency and agreed plans of action. And based on facts.

A totally independent professional facilitator from outside the industry may be worth considering too - this often helps broker an agreement in cases where feelings are running high on both sides.

Good luck!

[dominique]

I'll be having a chat with them on Monday and see what we can set up in ways of a summit.

[bb1webs]

A totally independent professional facilitator from outside the industry

Is there a Dr Phil is the house?



It seems to me there has become way too much "not knowing what the other hand is doing" in this industry and I cannot guess as to whether this has become an intentional situation which so often times is an excuse to be let off with a "oh you saw that? we didn't. But we're real sorry and won't do it again ... but keep in mind we don't control our affiliates so we can only address each individual instance ...."

or whether it truly is a communication gap that is not intentional.

I think the near future will greatly clear up that confusion since things are coming to a head where programs are going to need to either step ALL THE WAY UP and actually make an honest effort to thwart black hat marketing or else the little sideways-efforts which carry nearly no impact at all ... are going to publicly-outed for their true colors.

If/when a site is brought to a program's attention they need to find out who the offending affiliate is: give them one warning to clean up their act (because there will likely actually be instances where the affiliate didn't realize they were in the wrong and benefit of doubt must still prevail even though many of us are so fed up that its easy to call for a public hanging first and forget about anything less ... but we must rise above) : and then if that affiliate is caught dirty a second time the account should be cancelled with all earnings not paid.

This is much bigger than just our industry and this needs to be understood by such big players on the net as 888.com. If black hat SEO continues to be rewarded then it sets a tone which will inevitably carry over into other niches because once one is successful and others see that: they will follow in said example.

That will inevitably lead to an internet which consists of nothing but re-hashed information because scrapers don't add anything new to the mix. They at best merely echo someone else's content in small snippets.

It is for that reason if a program is known or seen to be courting black hat webmasters then that too: should be seen as a lack of sincere effort on their part to stop theft and other such tasteless tactics and that program should be publicly outed for its willingness to support these unethical approaches.

[jetset]

QUOTE: It is for that reason if a program is known or seen to be courting black hat webmasters then that too: should be seen as a lack of sincere effort on their part to stop theft and other such tasteless tactics and that program should be publicly outed for its willingness to support these unethical approaches.UNQUOTE

This all comes back to affiliates presenting a stronger, united and therefore more influential front i.m.o. because the programs probably need some encouragement before making an effective effort to thoroughly police their affiliates in a responsible and ethical manner as suggested above.

Publicly "outing" suggests to me a level of cohesive effort from the affiliate community to be successful.

The focus in the current SEO blackhat issue seems to me to have been almost exclusively on 888.com so far, and the letter from Lev suggests to me that they find this unfair.

Presumably 888.com are not the only ones with whom affiliates have a beef, so this exclusive focus is possibly due to a number of factors:

1) 888.com and/or its affiliates is the chief perpetrator of these tactics

2) It's a big target as a major operator and a publicly listed company

3) It's a member of eCOGRA, and that was thought to offer possible additional leverage potential.

4) There is as yet insufficient evidence to link other companies/programs with unethical conduct.

For all I know, the strategy may be to take on offending companies/programs one at a time, in managable bites but what other companies have been identified as involved in unacceptable practices on the SEO front?

Whatever the answer, I still see the best potential for a solution here as engagement with senior reps from 888.com.

[Professor]

Ok, I just got off the phone with Nicolas Lev and Brian Kohn from 888 casino and am happy to report the opening dialogue seems encouraging. 888 has indicated they are committed to working with CAP on a resolution to the valid concerns raised over the past several months by our affiliate members.

Nicolas will be sending me a statement of action on the proposed changes we discussed and I will post that at CAP and here at Casinomeister upon receipt.

The objective of these changes will be to eliminate the unethical marketing practices that have taken place in the past by removing the profit incentive for using them. These program changes coupled with public dialogue and private meetings I have scheduled with company representatives here in Orlando should lead to a postive resolution for 888, their affiliate partners and the industry as a whole.

I will report more as there are new developments.

[Casinomeister]

Thanks Lou,

Now, are they focusing primarily on the black hat SEO affiliate stuff, or will they be addressing the Blog spamming that's being done by Casava. I believe these spams are not being done by affiliates as I have pointed out here:
http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/888.html but by Casava itself. Will this be included in the discussion?

[lots0]

I would hope that the discussions would include all aspects of 888s blackhat marketing.

[dominique]

I would hope that the discussions would include all aspects of 888s blackhat marketing.

That's exactly what will happen. And talk is talk, we will be looking for action.

[GrandMaster]

The focus in the current SEO blackhat issue seems to me to have been almost exclusively on 888.com so far, and the letter from Lev suggests to me that they find this unfair.

Did any other poker room organise a special blackhat seo tournament?