Betsson seized my deposit (1100 euro)

[Mr_Zoidberg]

I always thought that Betsson was one of the most reputable casino group. I’ve created my account in november 2007 and I never had any bad experiences with Betsson. I've always trusted them, until now...

It is a very long and complicated story. I'll just give you the bottemline (I have a 7 pages Word document with the full story).

In december 2010 I had some cash that I needed to get in mij Neteller wallet. The easiest way was to buy some Paysafe vouchers, deposit it to a casino and withdraw it to Neteller. I choose to deposit the 1k in Paysafe vouchers and 100e by Neteller at Betsson. I thought it would be fair to generate some action at the casino. To speed things up I used a blackjack bot (I know this is questionable). In the end I've wagered around 2-3k on blackjack and 100 on slots. I had lost 50 euros and cashed out 1.050 euro to Neteller.

Then the problems started. My account was locked and reopened over and over again (phone verification, docs needed they already had, different cash out method). After a month Betsson support called me to tell me that my account was locked again and that I did not get my money because of "fraudulent play", "No discussion", "Decision is final". I could not believe it and I've mailed and called them several times, but with no results.

Back in January I was going to put the whole story including chat transcripts on Casinomeister. But before submitting it, I decided to mail the whole post to Betsson to give them a last chance to solve everything. Finaly they gave me an concrete, although unsatisfying, reply: you have used a bot = fraudulent play -> we keep al your deposited money (1.100e).

I agree that bots can be questionable, especially when there are bonuses involved. However, in my opinion, bots have nothing in common with fraud, nor is it a good reason to seize my deposits.

What do you guys think? Any chance that I will get my money back?

[rainmaker]

Hello,

As stated in their T&C

3.1.9.
You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to Your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and shall not use any software-assisted methods or techniques or hardware devices for Your participation in any of the Games. BETSSON hereby reserves the right to invalidate or close Your Member Account or invalidate Your participation in a Game in the event of such behaviour;


It is quite clear that they prohibits the use of a boot. They confiscation looks valid.

My personal opinion is that a boot only will help you to lose faster (statistically speaking). But anyway, they don`t want players to use it and that is very understandable.

[SlotMonster]

LOL, you broke T&C and still in hope to get your money back!

Forget about it! It's your fault that you didn't read their T&C!

[Nifty29]

I always thought that Betsson was one of the most reputable casino group. I’ve created my account in november 2007 and I never had any bad experiences with Betsson. I've always trusted them, until now...

It is a very long and complicated story. I'll just give you the bottemline (I have a 7 pages Word document with the full story).

In december 2010 I had some cash that I needed to get in mij Neteller wallet. The easiest way was to buy some Paysafe vouchers, deposit it to a casino and withdraw it to Neteller. I choose to deposit the 1k in Paysafe vouchers and 100e by Neteller at Betsson. I thought it would be fair to generate some action at the casino. To speed things up I used a blackjack bot (I know this is questionable). In the end I've wagered around 2-3k on blackjack and 100 on slots. I had lost 50 euros and cashed out 1.050 euro to Neteller.

Then the problems started. My account was locked and reopened over and over again (phone verification, docs needed they already had, different cash out method). After a month Betsson support called me to tell me that my account was locked again and that I did not get my money because of "fraudulent play", "No discussion", "Decision is final". I could not believe it and I've mailed and called them several times, but with no results.

Back in January I was going to put the whole story including chat transcripts on Casinomeister. But before submitting it, I decided to mail the whole post to Betsson to give them a last chance to solve everything. Finaly they gave me an concrete, although unsatisfying, reply: you have used a bot = fraudulent play -> we keep al your deposited money (1.100e).

I agree that bots can be questionable, especially when there are bonuses involved. However, in my opinion, bots have nothing in common with fraud, nor is it a good reason to seize my deposits.

What do you guys think? Any chance that I will get my money back?

Using bots is against the rules at every casino I know of.

You KNEW it too - but you 'rolled the dice' anyway and got caught.

If you were only going to wager your deposit a few times, what on earth possessed you to use a BOT? Laziness? Lapse of judgement?

Either way your chances of getting your money back is ZERO (if the terms provide for that).

Personally I'm not comfortable with confiscation of deposits in these cases, only winnings, however you agreed to the terms when you signed up so you can't now decide that you don't.

I think the whole transfer to neteller via casino accounts and vouchers is odd too. Neteller has lots of funding methods so can't see why its necessary.

You could try contacting the rep or using the PAB service.

[Mr_Zoidberg]

Thanks for your responses. It seems that I'm in deeper shit than I thought.

I never knew that a casino would confiscate deposits if you break their T&C. That seems very odd to me

[rainmaker]

Of course they will confiscate your deposit. Thats not odd at all.

You can not break a T&C without any consequences. That would be pretty pointless. I am sure you are able to imagine why

[BingoT]

It's just to bad you never looked at them T&C's
It's a lesson learned for ya sorry to say.
Nothing odd about it at all because if you buy a piece real estate & you break the lenders terms what does that lender do.......Take Your Property because you broke the contract agreement.

Everyone should take 10 minutes of their lives and read this stuff before you start.It's sucks but this is life.
Maybe the casino Rep will help you more for you.
Good Luck with this.
~T~

[Mousey]

Hello,

As stated in their T&C

3.1.9.
You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to Your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and shall not use any software-assisted methods or techniques or hardware devices for Your participation in any of the Games. BETSSON hereby reserves the right to invalidate or close Your Member Account or invalidate Your participation in a Game in the event of such behaviour;


It is quite clear that they prohibits the use of a boot. They confiscation looks valid.

...

Not that I agree with money laundering or breaking T&C or the OP's poor judgement, BUT.... where does it say DEPOSITS will be confiscated? Elsewhere in the terms perhaps? Unless he's commited fraud, and things are not on the up and up, then they have that right. But, IMHO, playing with a bot is not fraud.


Just my 2 cents.

[petro]

Could have already been pointed out but this is from Betsson's general T&C;

Only humans are permitted to play on our site. Artificially-intelligent programs, processes, applications and all other forms of software and hardware - including "Poker Bots" or "Auto Folders" - are prohibited from making game decisions or taking game action on our site, either under their own auspices or under the supervision of a human.

In short they don't allow bots. Seems your out of luck Mr. Zoidberg. Unless this is a new T&C that they are trying to apply retro-activly which I do not believe is the case.

[vinylweatherman]

Despite the "no bots" term, this is merely a breach of terms of business, and is in no way FRAUD. There is ONLY a right to void bets and confiscate winnings, NOTHING in the terms gives them any power to confiscate the players' own deposit money.

This is a case of refusal to do business after a breach of terms, in law the monies paid for the service do NOT belong to the provider, since the law ONLY allows the recovery of "reasonable costs in remedying the breach". This would probably only allow them to keep the banking fees they had to pay on receiving the deposit, and processing the refund of the balance.

The player is therefore due back the €1100, less the costs in remedying the breach of the terms of business, which will have to be justified.
This the most likely decision that a court would make.

Of course, all this could have been avoided by not being so damn lazy in the first place, and giving them some proper MANUAL action.

Betsson have also made themselves look bad by all the BULLSHIT they trotted out BEFORE they came up with the bot accusation, which in this case was correct. It makes it look as though they spent all this time stalling with BS excuses whilst they LOOKED for a reason not to pay out, which might have been triggered by their suspicions that this was a scheme to fund Neteller with these gift vouchers, rather than a desire to play with €1,100 in the casino.

They should have used THIS to take action, and paid the €1050 after deduction of charges, closed the account, told the player they are not a BANK, and don't expect to be used in this way.

The OP should try to take this to court, telling Betsson that they have sought legal advice to recover their deposit, and that this advice has been to consider making a claim for recovery through the courts. Betsson have a very WEAK case for arbitrarily taking the lot, and they KNOW it. They will have to JUSTIFY that €1100 is a fair sum to take account of the costs to them of remedying this breach. Hopefully, Betsson will NOT let it get to court, but will try to negotiate a settlement that they believe is fair, and as good as any that a court would award.