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Thread: High Noon Casino account closed - student issue

  1. #71
    vinylweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksech View Post
    Here in NY (not sure if this applies to any other state) students in grades 11 and 12 can take AP courses which are college courses. These courses go towards their college degree, so even at age 17 and 18 these students are considered college students while attending high school.

    Someone else mentioned homeschooling, I'm wondering how that would be interpreted by the casino since they aren't formally enrolled in a public/private educational institution?
    That might be the next one to hit. Many full time courses can be done from home, and it is NOT only the "mature student" doing them, but many young people who find they cannot get a job after leaving school may decide to do something along the lines of the UK's "Open University", which offers proper full time courses done at home for a fraction of the cost of actually attending a college or university. These will STILL be "full time students", yet depending on the nature of the course, and the provider, will not know whether they are still classed as students under CW banning criteria.

    In the threads discussing this, the CW rep was asked to say what they were trying to achieve in formulating a replacement term, but the question was not answered. Instead WE had to ASSUME what they were trying to achieve when making suggestions, and it seems we STILL have a term that is open to misinterpretation.

    The ONLY thing cleared up was that this did NOT apply to students over the age of 25, who would be students studying after having been in the jobs market.


    It is a weakness that many consumers DON'T read the terms and conditions when they buy something, or take out a contract. This is something the industries need to address, and using PLAIN ENGLISH and BREVITY in their terms would be a fantastic start.
    Many people don't read "smallprint" because it is very lengthy, and often seems to be written in a foreign language taught only to lawyers. Instead, they rely on the concept of trust, that the smallprint is NOT there to "screw them", and is there merely for "legal reasons" that need not concern them. They rely on the HEADLINE descriptions when deciding whether they want to buy the item, or take out the contract.

    This has been recognised in consumer law, and there are boundaries that "smallprint" may NOT cross, so there is at least SOME protection for those who are tricked by the advertising into taking out something unsuitable. The law also has the concept of something having been "mis sold", and this allows a contract, however watertight, to be set aside by the courts or the regulator.

    It is the LACK of such consumer protection online that creates problems with internet based services. Many consumers think the same standards apply to the internet as they do in B & M life, and forget that it is still the "wild west" in the internet world.

    Businesses that take advantage of the naivety of consumers deserve the "bashing" they get. It is no defence to claim "the customer should have............", because customers are NOT legally trained, and may not even be aware of what they should have done unless someone tells them first, or after their first experience of a problem after NOT doing something.

    Ordinary people CANNOT just "go ask their lawyer" when they meet terms they don't understand, this is something only the RICH would have routine access to (a family lawyer on permanent retainer at their beck & call), or a BUSINESS (a legal department, including a "house" lawyer or two).
    Whilst they SHOULD decline to take out a contract they don't understand, most will GO AHEAD and hope for the best.

    Even if we DID have our own lawyers, the casinos just use "the spirit of" defence, and claim what was written was NOT what they actually MEANT.
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  2. #72
    Da_Gambla is offline Meister Member
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    All this energy is being consumed to try and figure out how they can word this, or do that, but I really believe Soflat has it nailed:

    >They probably banned college student because of bonus abuse in the dorms and on share university computers

    They obviously wouldn't want to come right out and say that, but when you look at what they're trying to say, and how much controversy it is attracting, what else could you deduce? I really don't think home schooling is any part of what they're trying to accomplish.

    I don't think they want to fix it, otherwise they would have by now. Imagine trying to come up with verbiage to cover such a variable group? Impossible! Therefore, come up with something that you (the business) can interpret on a case-by-case basis. It allows them to be selective whilst appearing to be excluding a particular group for whatever moral reasoning. I ain't buying it. It's rubbish, it's cherry-picking at its finest.

    If this is the issue (strong evidence for it being so), then let's unload that in plain English and see if anyone can develop T&C wording to solve it:

    We, the business entity running a casino, have a history of problems with certain players who abuse our bonus systems. We have identified that a majority of these problematic individuals come from students, many who trade and glean information from websites and message forums, then utilize resources available at their schools and dormitories to gain an advantage against the services we provide. We wish to exclude as many of those problematic students as possible, whilst not ostracizing those customers we deem legitimate and desired.

    Anyone want to take a solid stab at some T&C wording that will work here? I tried. I failed.

    - Keith
    I agree 100% that no patterns exist in roulette. Therefore, when they appear, we will call
    them a COMMON VIRTUAL LIMIT, and prepare to make a wager! - Sentinel/Fender1000

  3. #73
    4 of a kind is offline Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll Achievements:
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    This whole issue is just another case of how stupid and ridicules online gaming actually became.

    First of all I think the OP trying to prove how clever he is at such a mature adult age of 18 by finding technically another stupid loop hole left open by the brilliant people that write these T&C’s; personally, I feel the OP should be punished and cut off of his allowance and computer for a month. If he doesn’t like it then throw him the hell out of the house. He should have no problem living on his own; after all he is an adult.

    The casino should be forced to pay his original deposit back just for being so damn stupid in the first place, since in a court of law the argument might hold some water based on ill-written T&C’s. Then again common sense might just overrule everything and the judge sentences him to a spanking.

    The casino has every right not to question every single person that enters their casino prior to gambling and loses money. If your only 19 and look like your 25 and never were randomly checked while gambling in Las Vegas, made 10 visits and lost 5k, and while on your 11th visit you win a 5k jackpot. Not only will you not get any funds what so ever back, you’ll get thrown out of the casino. It’s been done several times in the past.

    There are far more serious issues to raise hell about when it comes to online gaming. With this lack of common sense thread gaining such momentum and serious debate, confirms just another sign of how ridicules this all has become.

  4. #74
    Da_Gambla is offline Meister Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4 of a kind View Post
    There are far more serious issues to raise hell about when it comes to online gaming. With this lack of common sense thread gaining such momentum and serious debate, confirms just another sign of how ridicules this all has become.
    Nominated.

    Thanks, mate. Spot on minimizes the situation.

    - Keith
    I agree 100% that no patterns exist in roulette. Therefore, when they appear, we will call
    them a COMMON VIRTUAL LIMIT, and prepare to make a wager! - Sentinel/Fender1000

  5. #75
    jod5413's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Gambla View Post
    Nominated.

    Thanks, mate. Spot on minimizes the situation.

    - Keith
    An absolutely beautiful and well written post, wish I had said it!

    Thanks, 4oak.
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  6. #76
    3mptyseat is offline Quit Gambling
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    Quote Originally Posted by petro View Post
    What are you doing here then?
    Online casinos are bad news dude. No one with a chance to live a decent life should be here...

    I'm serious.
    Petro, do you need to talk to someone Bro? I'm hear to listen if so... This is a little dark and cynical, is it not?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    "Students under 25 years of age may not play unless prior approval has been granted by the casino".
    Absolutely agree!
    Until the CWC group decide EXACTLY who it is they want to ban and make it 100% clear in their terms, I have added the following note against all their casinos on my website:-
    "No Students under 25 years of age!"

    KK
    You go King! The interweb needs more protection for infantile adults... From themselves...

    I wish someone would have kept me away from gambling before I was 25. Anti social behavior is what it is. And a touch habitual... anyway... There was no such 'rule' or 'someone' to keep me from gambling, and even if there was, I would have ignored it/them, bc I was an adult. In fact, I left for university at 17, and never have been a dependent since. So tell me; if I can manage to pay my tuition, go to class, read my courseload, and pass my finals, not to mention, clean myself, pay my bills, pay my rent and remember to eat every once in awhile, whose business is it if I wish to gamble a lil of whats left over assuming I am of legal age to do so in the area I am trying to gamble from? I know 30 year olds with less financial aptitude and far less maturity than I possessed at 17(And thats just my close friends)! We might suggest to CWC that they too be excluded...

  7. #77
    jussiv is offline Newbie member Achievements:
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4 of a kind View Post
    First of all I think the OP trying to prove how clever he is at such a mature adult age of 18 by finding technically another stupid loop hole left open by the brilliant people that write these T&C’s; personally, I feel the OP should be punished and cut off of his allowance and computer for a month. If he doesn’t like it then throw him the hell out of the house. He should have no problem living on his own; after all he is an adult.
    What the hell is your problem?

    Anyway, got my deposit back and got tired at trying to argue with the casino so no winnings.

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  9. #78
    ksech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jussiv View Post
    What the hell is your problem?

    Anyway, got my deposit back and got tired at trying to argue with the casino so no winnings.
    I don't really think he is the one with the problem jussiv. I think some of us will agree you were trying to "scam" the casino with a loosely written T&C and it backfired on you. I would suggest the next time you want to play at an online casino you make sure you read the T&Cs BEFORE you make a deposit and if there are any doubts you go to CS and ask questions. That way you know there won't be any problems if you are able to cashout.

    You are fortunate they gave you your deposit back, some other casino would have just kept it and sent you on your way. Live and learn...

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    Da_Gambla (16th February 2011), jod5413 (17th February 2011), Nifty29 (16th February 2011)

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksech View Post
    I don't really think he is the one with the problem jussiv. I think some of us will agree you were trying to "scam" the casino with a loosely written T&C and it backfired on you. I would suggest the next time you want to play at an online casino you make sure you read the T&Cs BEFORE you make a deposit and if there are any doubts you go to CS and ask questions. That way you know there won't be any problems if you are able to cashout.

    You are fortunate they gave you your deposit back, some other casino would have just kept it and sent you on your way. Live and learn...
    LOL at him trying to "scam" the casino, some of you should probably get out more.

    He was totally right in wondering what is wrong with 4OAK after his pathetic steaming.

    And people have totally lost it when they think OP was lucky getting his deposit back.

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  13. #80
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    On the specific complaint that this thread is built upon, I can see both sides of the issue. I would probably side with the player since the terms are not explicit by virtue of their overcomplicated nature. A simple "No full-time students under the age of 25" would have been a far better wording for this restriction. But I would have to admit I am not really passionate about "righting this wrong", as I can see that the other side of this issue has some merit.

    -HOWEVER-


    I see this policy as a blatant attempt by the Club World Group to effectively lower their RTP percentages. This is what really pisses me off about this issue, and a perfect example of why online gambling sucks big-time.

    As I had pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, I doubt that Club World Group returns the deposits of Students under 25 years of age who have lost $$$ and never have requested a withdrawal (and considering that this is RTG software, their are quite possibly many such players in this category ). This is because the "trigger" of this circumstance coming to light is a withdrawal and not a deposit.

    Deposit and lose, Club World keeps your deposit; Win and withdrawal.....Are you a student?

    My biggest issue with online gaming is that the casinos write the rules and are judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to anything after they get your deposit in their hands. I am a libertarian politically, but after years of the self-serving bullsh*t that I see even the more reputable casinos pull, I am convinced that without government oversight, the average online gambler is just a manipulated patsy at the mercy of the casino.
    A box lunch can be quite savory

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