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Dear everyone,
Maybe this is a weird story, but I'm going to post it anyway. My son, who is only 16 years old, registered on a casino/sportsbook site called Sportingbet.com.
He has spent 1500 euros of his savings money to this site. When he came crying downstairs to me, I contacted their support immediately. Support first told me that they will investigate this and contact Neteller about this. (He paid through Neteller.)
Now today, they said that there won't be a refund since Neteller would be liable for sending the funds and sportingbet.com accepting the bets of my son. I find this absolutely ridiculous. They want to keep the money of my underage son.
I have copied the chat I've had today (sorry for the long conversation). I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and what can I do best now? I feel pretty shocked about this as a parent and can't imagine what would be the best solution now.
Thanks in advance.
The chat of me with support today:
info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Saso'
Saso: Welcome! How may I assist you?
Saso: Hi Dirk.
Dirk Jacobus: Hello Saso. I was wondering what's going on right now.
Saso: I have received a reply and I am affraid I do not have a good news for you.
Saso: Our Accounts Managment have received a reply from neteller and have deceided that it was not Sportingbets liability the funds that your son had lost.
Saso: The reason being that he gave false information about his age when registering the Neteller account.
Dirk Jacobus: But he played on your site, right?
Saso: Yes, but AM have explained to me that once a customer is using a neteller account we assume that he is not a minor since he would noy have been able to register an account with a Netteler if he were.
Saso: The only possibility is when that person provides false information regarding his or her age.
Saso: When that happens, are liability stops.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, but it is an underage child Saso. I dont understand that Account Management accepts that an underage child played on your site, and deposits his savings money
Dirk Jacobus: It can't be true that a casino wants money of an underage person?
Saso: The way they have explained is that we are vaild in asumption that the person is not an underage unless it provided false information.
Saso: But that would be something Neteller should deal with.
Dirk Jacobus: Of course Neteller should also block his account
Dirk Jacobus: But then, the money of my 16 years old boy is still with a gambling company
Dirk Jacobus: That's just not correct
Saso: Our warranty is Neteller, they shoul make sure that their users are not underage.
Saso: Once the money comes to us, we just assume it has been checked.
Saso: That is the explanation I was given, Dirk.
Saso: I am just a messenger here.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay, but then, if it appears that it's not money of someone older than 18, don't you then have the responsibility to say as a gambling company: We can't accept this?
Dirk Jacobus: That would be the most fair in such a situation when everything is clear about it
Saso: That is why we have closed his account.
Saso: But prior to that, he did register as over 18.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay, but then you just say: We see that he is underage, we close his account, but we keep the money for ourselves.
Saso: Money has been lost before.
Saso: Before we even knew that he was underage.
Saso: Money is gone.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, but the bets are if we view it legal, invalid. Bets cant be placed by an underage according the law
Dirk Jacobus: They should never been accepted
Saso: Technically, at that moment bets were accepted from someone that claimed to be adult and register on our site as adult and even opened N Neteller account as adult.
Saso: Imagine a minor looking like a nadult and entering the night club with the fake ID.
Saso: The security's liability stops once he had used a fake ID to enter.
Dirk Jacobus: Well, but when they find out later on that night he is underage, he would get kicked out
Dirk Jacobus: After someone reports that
Saso: Exactly, that's why we closed an account. But the barman will not refund the money for the drinks he has drunk at that night club, correct?
Dirk Jacobus: That's correct. Because he can't give the drinks back. But a casino case and a bar case are very different. I mean, you would have always found out that a person is underage after a first security check. Neteller isn't liable for accepting your bets?
Dirk Jacobus: Because if Neteller would be the company that's liable for placing bets on your site, I have to argue with that with my lawyer
Saso: They should check the customers who are using their services.
Dirk Jacobus: But you as a merchant too.
Dirk Jacobus: It's not 100% liable of Neteller, agree?
Saso: It should have not com as far as us.
Saso: They are 100% liable for checking their customers, in my opinion.
Dirk Jacobus: But a nice comparison, what if my son just transfered the money straight away from his bank account?
Dirk Jacobus: Then he would play with it, I bet you would also say that you won't refund anything then..
Dirk Jacobus: Because it's just all about the money now for you..
Saso: No, because, it would show at registration that he is underage.
Saso: That ia what I am tryng to explain.
Dirk Jacobus: Of course not, if he had registered with the same details as now, okay.
Saso: We would have checked him automatically and he would not be able to do it.
Dirk Jacobus: Then he made a deposit NOT through Neteller
Saso: No, his bank details would have been checked or they would have to macth the details he had given while registering into Sportingbet.
Dirk Jacobus: Because it's easy to say this, but when a test person would do this (for example with my lawyer) and we see that there also is no check..
Saso: Once they do not match the deposit would have been rejected.
Dirk Jacobus: They would have matched, because the name of my son was just like on the bank account
Saso: You don't know that, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: there is never a check of date of birth with bank transfers Saso
Saso: You would be surprised at how many customers we check on, with phone call, URU or otherwise.
Saso: Again, I do undesrtand your situation here, sir. But i do not think that you will get a refund.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay. But when it's about big money, you can't deny that a company thinks: We can better accept it, and then when we see it was an underage player, just say this..
Dirk Jacobus: It's just the thought after this decision Saso
Dirk Jacobus: I just can't understand a casino wants money of an underage child..
Saso: As I said, I am just a messeneger and I have been talking with AM about that for last few days.
Dirk Jacobus: As that is clear now
Saso: But it seems to me that they are set on this decision and they will not change it.
Dirk Jacobus: And then yes, you can say it was through Neteller and they're liable, but you can also say that maybe if you had also done a check, he wouldn't have deposited at all and show a positive side of your company..
Dirk Jacobus: But I just have the feeling you want to keep money of my underage boy
Saso: We would not have done it because it comes through Neteller.
Saso: It seems that money will be kept, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes but please, you keeping Neteller liable, it's not about the liability but about the thought that you as a casino have underage money
Dirk Jacobus: Isn't there any regulation commission for these cases?
Dirk Jacobus: I mean independent
Dirk Jacobus: Because you never can say this is independent
Saso: You will have to ask them, I am really not sure.
Dirk Jacobus: You only see the money side of this situation and not the human side..
Dirk Jacobus: Well, not you Saso, but the Account team
Saso: I don't think that decision will be of obligatory nature.
Saso: Regardless of what could be deceided.
Dirk Jacobus: So I could better contact Alderney Gambling Control Commission?
Dirk Jacobus: or the Malta Lotteries and Gaming Authority
Saso: I really do not know where to go, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Saso do you say this because you don't want me to report this to them?
Dirk Jacobus: Can't you ask a collegue?
Saso: I suggest you get in touch with them and see if they are the one to handle tha tissue.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, because a regulation commission makes obligatory decision, right?
Dirk Jacobus: and they are independent.
Saso: I really do not know and I am really not the one to give away any information of that nature even if i knew, sir.
Saso: I personally tried to help on a human klevel as much as I could, but now it is out of my hands, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: I understand Saso. But finally I have something that shocks me.
Dirk Jacobus: Please note that anyone under the age of 18 found to be gambling with SportingBet will have any winnings forfeited.
Dirk Jacobus: If my son would have won, then he would lose his winnings
Dirk Jacobus: that's just ridiculous..
Dirk Jacobus: and then he would got his original bet back..
Dirk Jacobus: So only when you would made a loss on this person you would make a decision in your own profit..
Saso: I didn't even know that. So money is lost anyway.
Saso: Money is lost from the moment he signed with false information.
Saso: That is pretty much it.
Dirk Jacobus: Says your account management..
Dirk Jacobus: But we don't know the decision of the independent 3th party yet
Saso: Perhaps, sir.
Saso: is there anything else I can do for you?
Dirk Jacobus: Also on many sites, when you search for underage gambling you can read the following Saso:
Dirk Jacobus: When you register to gamble with any payment method other than a credit card, the operator must carry out additional age checks to make sure you are over 18. This is because some forms of payment, for example debit cards, can be held by under-18s. No winnings should be paid to you until your age is verified. If, after 72 hours, the operator has not been able to verify your age, they should freeze your account until they are able to do so. If you are later found to be underage, your account will be closed. Your stakes will be returned to you, but you will not be paid any winnings.
Dirk Jacobus: especially the last part is important to me.
Dirk Jacobus: " If you are later found to be underage, your account will be closed. Your stakes will be returned to you, but you will not be paid any winnings. "
Dirk Jacobus: That's the best decision I suppose, for everyone. For the reputation of your company and for the underage child..
Saso: The AM decision is final, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Well, not after a regulation commission changes that decision, Saso.
Dirk Jacobus: Then they are obligated to listen to that.
Saso: Until then, at least.
Dirk Jacobus: It could have been solved much quicker..
Dirk Jacobus: But I can't accept it when a company looks more to the financial aspect than the human aspect of an underage gambler.
Dirk Jacobus: It's just the wrong attitude of a company
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Originally Posted by lottethedog
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