BigDollar steals money from underage girls

[Irene]

I'm just posting this as a warning to others - I've written off the money.

I am 19 years old and live in Germany. I have played at a few online casinos without my age being a problem. The legal age to gamble here is 18. Here is an email exchange I've had recently with Big Dollar, where I opened an account, deposited 100. I wagered some and now my balance is 75.

First of all I received the following:

CGB Support <support@casinograndbay.com> wrote:

Dear Irene,

Thank you for your patronage at the Grand Priv Group of Casinos.

Please Note: Your casino account has been locked, for underage gambling.

The legal age for gambling in your state is 21 years, and older.

Should you be above the legal age, and suspect that you have filled out your casino account details incorrectly, you will be required to send us the following documents, in order to re-activate your casino account:

Copy of valid Driver's License/Social Security Card/Passport (only 1 of 3 required).
Copy of a recent Utility Bill in your name.
Front and Back copies of any Credit/Debit card you have registered.

These documents may be either faxed, or e-mailed to the casino (in j-peg format), and will then be forwarded to our Risk Management department for review.

You will then be contacted telephonically by a casino consultant, and informed of their decision.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation, and understanding.

Kind Regards,

Adrian Garrard
Customer Service

Please Note: In order for us to assist you with greater efficiency, kindly include your
casino account number on future e-mail correspondence.

I have never been to any Grand Prive casino and didn't know what this was about, so replied as follows:

Please note the following:

1. I do not have an account at any casino in the Grand Prive Group. If you think I do, tell me the name of the casino and account number. I'd also be interested in where you got my email address and name, because I never gave them to you.

2. How do you know my age? I never told you. How do you know my state? It's Baden Wrtemburg in Germany - are you sure the legal age for gambling here is 21? I thought it was 18, and I live here.

Please Note: In order for me to assist you with greater efficiency, kindly include my casino account number on future e-mail correspondence.

Irene

casino account: you tell me!

Then I get:

Thank you for your patronage at the $Big Dollar$ of Casinos.

Please Note: Your casino account has been locked, for underage gambling.

The legal age for gambling in your state is 21 years, and older.

Should you be above the legal age, and suspect that you have filled out your casino account details incorrectly, you will be required to send us the following documents, in order to re-activate your casino account:

Copy of valid Driver's License/Social Security Card/Passport (only 1 of 3 required).
Copy of a recent Utility Bill in your name.
Front and Back copies of any Credit/Debit card you have registered.

These documents may be either faxed, or e-mailed to the casino (in j-peg format), and will then be forwarded to our Risk Management department for review.

You will then be contacted telephonically by a casino consultant, and informed of their decision.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation, and understanding.

Kind Regards,

Sasha Wallace
Customer Service

I went to check my Big Dollar account, and found it was still open, my balance was still showing at 75, and I had access to all the games. I clicked on "Bank" and got a message that my account was locked, but actually the only part of the casino I can't enter is the bank, ie I can continue playing but I can't withdraw.

I wrote back:

Ok now I understand, Big Dollar is part of the Grand Prive Group. I didn't know that, and you gave no indication of what you were writing about in your previous email. The legal age for gambling in Germany is 18. If you don't want players under 21 it shouldn't have been possible for me to join up and make a deposit, at no stage did I try to deceive you about my age, and I have gambled at many online casinos without my age being an issue.

If you don't want players under 21 then you'd better reopen my account so I can at least withdraw my deposit. I attach ID. Surely you're not the kind of organisation that takes money from underage gamblers and refuses to give it back? In fact I'll have the 25 I lost whilst wagering my deposit back if you think it was wrong and should never have happened.

You certainly don't seem to be taking your responsibilities to underage gambling seriously if you allowed me to open an account, deposit, gamble and then refuse to give me what's left of my money back.

Anyway, the legal age of gambling here is 18.

Regards,

Irene

 

[Irene]

continued ...

Big Dollar Support <support@bigdollar.com> wrote:

Dear Irene,

Thank you for your patronage at the $Big Dollar$ Casino Group.

Please forgive me.
Grand Prive is not part of the Big Dollar group, they are separate.

Please also note that for our Casino group you must be 21 years or older to play with us.
Thank you for your documents.

Should you have any further queries, please feel free to contact the Support Desk, at anytime.

Kind Regards,

Sasha Wallace
Customer Service

I replied:

You obviously share the same CS as grand prive, because my first two emails on the subject were from them, which is what led to confusion. If you scroll down you will see that I received an email starting:

"Thank you for your patronage at the Grand Priv Group of Casinos. "

Which is a strange thing to say if you're writing about my bigdollar account and bigdollar has nothing to do with grand prive.

When are you going to open my account so I can withdraw my money? At the moment I have access to the games but not to the bank, which means I can gamble my money away but I can't withdraw it. Surely it should be the other way around if you really want to protect underage gamblers as you claim.

I'd like a specific time by which my account will be open so I can withdraw my money. So far you've:

1. Sent me emails from Grand Prive about a BigDollar account, then claimed they have nothing to do with each other
2. Claimed the legal age to gamble in my state is 21, which is plain wrong, it's 18
3. Said I'm not allowed to play at your games, but I still have access to all games so I can lose some more of my underaged money
4. Watched me lose 25 euros even though I'm not allowed to, and made sure I can't withdraw the rest of my money
5. Allowed me to open an account, deposit and wager even though I honestly entered my date of birth during the registration process.

Presumeably if I'd lost my whole deposit by now you wouldn't have a problem. If I go to the tables now and blow my remaining 75 you won't have a problem either will you? What a scam outfit.

Irene

Big Dollar Support <support@bigdollar.com> wrote:

Hi Irene,

They are two separate companies, but yes we do support for both, actually a few casinos.

Is there anything else that we may assist you with from the Big Dollar side?

Kind Regards,

Peter Phillips
Customer Service

Yes, you can give me access to the banking section so I can withdraw my money. When can I expect this to happen?

Irene

Hi Irene,

The casino has requested documentation from you, and you will unfortunately not have access to the account until the casino has received the documents.

Please be assured that this is not to inconvenience you, it is required for auditing and security purposes.

I look forward to receiving your documents and seeing you gaming with us soon.

Kind Regards,

Peter Phillips
Customer Service

I sent you the documents a couple of emails ago. Did you bother to check whether you had already received them? Your colleague Sascha Wallace thanked me for sending them in the email below, if you scroll down. So for the third time of asking, when can I expect to have access to the banking area of my account again?

Irene

Hi Irene,

I did not receive your documents, otherwise I would have thanked you as did Sasha.

When the documents are received, we will forward it to security and they will unlock the account.

Kind Regards,

Peter Phillips
Customer Service

"When the documents are received ..." They already have been received, by Sascha. Do they have to be received by you as well? If so, are you waiting for Sascha to send them to you, or are you saying I have to send them to you even though I have already sent them to Sascha? Any chance of you communicating with Sascha and sorting this out, or aren't you speaking to each other? I didn't realise that Sascha was thanking me only on his personal behalf and that everyone else at Grand Prive / Big Dollar / Whatever still considers my documents as "not received". Shall I send them to every CS employee just to be safe?

Irene

 

[Irene]

continued ...

Dear Irene,

Thank you for your patronage at the Grand Priv Group of Casinos.

Please note that the legal gambling age at the casino is 21 years. Therefore, we are unable to activate your account.

Should you have any further queries, please feel free to contact the Support Desk, at anytime.

Kind Regards,

David Matthews
Customer Service

Please note that you've pressed the wrong button again and sent me an email from Grand Prive, when my account is at Big Dollar. Please also note that you have allowed an apparently under-aged gambler (which I don't accept) to register, deposit and wager. The only thing you don't allow players under 21 to do is have their money back. I have 75 euros in the account you've locked, how do you propose to pay it back to me?

Irene

GP Support <support@grandprive.com> wrote:

Dear Irene,

Thank you for your mail.

Please note that the balance in your account will be refunded back to your account.

You may send an email of request through to customer support should this not be done within the next 2-3 hours.

Should you have any further queries, please feel free to contact the Support Desk, at anytime.

Kind Regards,

Dave Jones
Customer Service

Do you mean it will be sent back to my neteller account? Over 12 hours since your email and it hasn't arrived yet.

Irene

So far no reply and no money. I checked the Big Dollar site, and it does say (in a corner somewhere) the following:

Age limitation:

Play at BIG DOLLAR CASINO is restricted to individuals of legal gambling age, as determined by the laws governing the Players place of residence.
US state laws set legal minimum ages for placing a wager, in most cases, at 21 years of age. BIG DOLLAR CASINO does NOT accept wagers from individuals under the LEGAL GAMBLING AGE for where they reside.
In addition, no player under 21 may play at BIG DOLLAR CASINO.

So fair enough, I should have read that and not joined. But I made an honest mistake, didn't read it, didn't know they didn't want players under 21, and joined anyway, entering my date of birth and all other details correctly. They could have noticed and pointed it out to me at any point, but they chose to only after I had made a deposit.

Can I suggest that they place the following, more accurate, warning in a prominent place on their homepage:

In addition, any player over 18 but under 21 may play at BIG DOLLAR CASINO. Upon registering and depositing, the banking area will be closed and remain closed to such a player so that they may never withdraw any winnings or their original deposit. The player may however continue to play and lose at BIG DOLLAR CASINO until their balance reaches zero.

 

[The Dude]

Well, for an underage "girl", you sure have a lot of patience. I would have committed an act of defenestration on my computer by now. Sheesh!

 

[dingo]

seems very much a case of online casino staff incompetence to me

 

[GOCC]

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

It says on their web site the the age limit is determined by where YOU play from, not them.

I know my sister had a go at a grand prive and to their credit they immediately locked the account. She asked why and was told to send them docs to prove she was over 18 and they would check it was ok for her to bet according to UK law


HMMMMM

I now notice a little addition to the bottom that says, No person under 21 allowed to play. This looks seriously like an after thought. Why have the initial line in the text if you have this further down

 

[mikepipe]

wonderful story- still the same old fellows and always the stupid old methods.
Clearly: acount to be locked, deposit back. nothing to be added.

 

[cynthial]

Shame on Grand Prive

As I read thru your posts I am gobsmacked by the response from the Casino Group Grand Prive / Big Dollar / Whoever they are. I used to play with this group and it seemed to me that there was always an issue with Customer service. (I had to email docs 3 times and fax twice!)I have uninstalled all software from them but they continue to mail me junk offers. This is so blatant an attempt by them to keep your funds that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Please keep us informed if they return your funds and I believe it should be for the whole amount of 100, not 75. Good luck to you and shame, shame, shame on Grand Prive/Big Dollar!!!

 

[Dewberry]

This is a bit off the topic but I have had bonus problems with Grand Prive/Big Dollar.

I receive email bonuses from Big Dollar but when I deposit and claim the bonus, several times it states "incorrect promotion number" although I know there is no mistake.

Came to the conclusion that if I receive a bonus email from Grand Prive and claim it, then I can't claim the Big Dollar one. At least that's the way it seems.

Because of this, I have removed both groups from my computer as they are undependable and customer service is poor.

 

[soflat]

I've had very few problems with the group. In fact they are one of the few MGs accepting US players and giving generous bonuses.

Kudos to Irene for handling the bumbling customer service so well.

I doubt they are trying to rip you off. It just looks like they have a bad cs system.

 

[Irene]

short update

I just checked my big dollar account again. I had no trouble getting in, and my 75 was still sitting there. Looks like they have no arrangements for paying it back to me. I tried to enter the bank but got the "locked" message. Then, overcome with a sudden urge to gamble, I wagered one chip on roulette and lost. Balance now 74.

So despite my age I can still blow my stack whenever I want to, but if I try to make a withdrawal big dollar will protect me from my youthful stupidity and make sure I can't.

 

[winbig]

Confusing terms:

Play at BIG DOLLAR CASINO is restricted to individuals of legal gambling age, as determined by the laws governing the Player’s place of residence.

US state laws set legal minimum ages for placing a wager, in most cases, at 21 years of age. BIG DOLLAR CASINO does NOT accept wagers from individuals under the LEGAL GAMBLING AGE for where they reside.

In addition, no player under 21 may play at BIG DOLLAR CASINO

In both paragraphs it says you need to be of legal age in YOUR COUNTRY, but the last sentence in paragraph 3 states nobody under 21 can play there.

The only way paragraphs 1&2 would make any sense is if the gambling age was OVER 21.

They need to get their (*#$&#@ together.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Rules

Under eCogra rules, Big Dollar must void ALL PLAY, and this means they must return the whole 100 and lock the entire account!

eCogra has already been reprimanded for accepting deposits and play from an underage gambler, and only checking when they won a large amount.

The MG registration page does not ask for the player's age, just that they declare they have reached the legal age in their own state.

I would recommend making a complaint to eCogra, and asking them to follow the procedure for underage play and return all deposits. Since you did not lie, you have a strong case.

You could also point out how very careless this group are with critical personal information, the documents sent. The fact that documents can be sent again and again to a casino, yet be "lost" indicates an appalling level of security.

The initial e-mail quoting Grand Prive is another indication of poor regard for personal information. They claim Big Dollar is not part of Grand Prive, but experience says otherwise. If Big Dollar is not part of Grand Prive, then passing your personal data to grand Prive (age, address, etc) is illegal under data protection laws in many companies. If the support centre is in the UK they could be in trouble! Parts of the EU offer similar protection.

If big dollar IS part of Grand Prive, they have not broken the rules about personal data, but they are lying about who they are, and that is not good, especially for an eCogra seal holder.

 

[quber]

incompetence

and then right in the middle of it all we get

Hi Irene,

The casino has requested documentation from you, and you will unfortunately not have access to the account until the casino has received the documents.

Please be assured that this is not to inconvenience you, it is required for auditing and security purposes.

I look forward to receiving your documents and seeing you gaming with us soon.

Kind Regards,

Peter Phillips
Customer Service

so he clearly doesn't understand that you are being told you are too young to play

Good luck with these lot, once they understand the issue you may get a result but no one seems to know what's going on.

 

[jerrylee]

Irene, congrats on remaining in control, logical and polite! Many players would have gone bananas, swore, threatened and made an a$$ out of themselves.

Is there a manager you can PM?

If I were part of that support team, I would recommend they make an exception for your age, due to the confusion about residing age and the under 21 clause, plus offer a bonus, whether you cash out or not. You might think twice, or they may lose a potential loyal customer.

 

[winbig]

Irene, congrats on remaining in control, logical and polite! Many players would have gone bananas, swore, threatened and made an a$$ out of themselves.

Is there a manager you can PM?

If I were part of that support team, I would recommend they make an exception for your age, due to the confusion about residing age and the under 21 clause, plus offer a bonus, whether you cash out or not. You might think twice, or they may lose a potential loyal customer.

But, if they make an exception for one, they'd have to remove that clause altogether...

 

[nektar4d]

Bravo Irene!

Irene, congrats on remaining in control, logical and polite! Many players would have gone bananas, swore, threatened and made an a$$ out of themselves.

Amazing, considering your age, how mature your attitude is
Whatever happens, keep up this way and you will be rewarded (both in this case I believe but certainly in your life generally)

 

[jerrylee]

But, if they make an exception for one, they'd have to remove that clause altogether...

true enough. first priority would be clearing up the T&C.

 

[KasinoKing]

The MG registration page does not ask for the player's age, just that they declare they have reached the legal age in their own state.

That's really strange!

Every single MG I've joined (and that's a lot!) has asked me for my date of birth in registration.

Are you (and everyone else) saying that though Microgaming software engineers can design wonderful, colourful, complicated, multi-line paying slots, they are incapable of writing a simple routine to check how old a player is (Clue: Age = "Today" minus "D.O.B."), and then refusing to allow the sign-up right at the outset?

Give me a fricking break!
This is player abuse by the casino, and it makes me sick!

Irene: I echo all the above - you have remained unbelievably calm in the face of such incompetence. Well done!

 

[Sladinky]

by the way in germany you have to be 21 to be allowed to take part in the "groe Spiel" like roulette, black jack etc. at landbased casinos. Age of 18 allows you to play the electronic games like slots etc.

 

[vinylweatherman]

DOB

Although MG take DOB, it is not used for validation. At the very end a player is asked to state they are of legal age by ticking a box. Tick "no" and registration will be refused, tick "yes" and you can register regardless of what is in the DOB field. The DOB and other registration information comes into play when documents are requested and sent. The documents must match the registration information. This only happens when the first withdrawal is requested, and often only if it is substantial.

 

[Pinababy69]

Irene, you have ALOT more patience than I have. This has got to be the most laughable excuse for customer service I've seen recently. Please let us know if you get your full deposit back, which I think you're entitled to. If you don't, I would definitely file a complaint with eCOGRA.

 

[tim5ny]

Sheesh! I'm amazed that these kooks would rather take this much negative press rather than give the player her deposit back. It's things like this that give credence to the U.S. govt. for trying to block internet gambling for us. Although we know that the real reason for the ban is non-revenue received from offshore sites, it's things like this that give them ammunition to back up their false pretenses for executing the ban.

 

[aussiekeith]

I have had no problems with Big Dollar or Casinos in the Grand Prive Group.

I have had no major problems with Big Dollar or the other 5 Casinos in this Group.
Grandprive do own Big Dollar as they told me on the telephone when I rang them up about something else. They have always phoned me when I open an account with them to verify who I am. I have had withdrawals from this group and always have the money in my account within 2 to 3 days.
The only issue I had was something went wrong with the automatic bonus playthrough recently as I had $300.00 to playthrough on comp points that I cashed in and I added up what I had played after I had cashed the comp points into my account and I had reached $330.00 in wagers in the playcheck when I added all my wagers up twice. The bonus was still on $10.00 and I actually ended up wagering close to $500.00 to clear the $10.00 Comp points x 30 which equals $300.00. Why do so many casinos have these playthrough requirements as It takes quite a lot of wagering to be able to cash in Comp Points then they come with playthrough requirements.
I want to add in here, has anybody had spam from Mr Steve Cook from Casino Rewards. My wife is getting spam from all the Casinos in the Casino Rewards Group and so am I to my Gmail and other emails that I never gave them when I played there. They claim they do not send out spam!!!!!!. To be honest they are the worst casino group I have come across for SPAM and I have deleted my accounts with them months ago.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Grand Prive

Why do Grand Prive continue with this lie that they do not own Big Dollar. Why do they have such a big problem with telling the truth on this?
Companies that need to lie to customers usually are up to something, such as screwing the customer with a subsidiary company but not wanting this to reflect upon the reputation of the main group.

Is it a case of Big Dollar being the subsidiary used to "screw" players to subsidise offers at the "reputable" 5 casinos.