Heroes Casino - Blackjack issues, slow-pay

[deucebag]

Does Heroes still maintain that Westland Bowl was able to predict the outcome of hands through his system? Is that why the software provider is paying out winnings?

[jetset]

If Gale Winds is not only shutting these bozos down, but looking after the player to boot, then that is - as Max says - some serious kudos due.

And this is a presumably new and not very well known provider, which makes such a player-sensitive stance even more unusual.

We'll hopefully soon know whether GW is good on their word, as Westland will be keeping us informed of developments here.

On the face of these circumstances, Heroes belongs in rogue-land alright.

[jetset]

Interesting information from http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/boar...g-users-7.html

Post #164 where Heroes Casino is reported as claiming:

"We are not closing our doors, actually we are moving forward with a full head of steam. The sportsbook is our main staple at this point. We are changing casino providers since our previous provider had faulty software that allowed people to use pattern software to cheat the casino.

"Since the provider failed to open their source code up to testing by a company called TST they were forced to also pay Tim ****** for the full amount he won in the casino. The only way that these pattern recognition software would work is if there is either a weak RNG or some other part of the software was faulty. Without a full source code evaluation this could not be confirmed.

"Again we are open and strong as far as sportbetting is concerned and as soon as we finish the integration and testing of our new casino that too will be back online."

[same_old]

If Gale Winds is not only shutting these bozos down, but looking after the player to boot, then that is - as Max says - some serious kudos due.

And this is a presumably new and not very well known provider, which makes such a player-sensitive stance even more unusual.

We'll hopefully soon know whether GW is good on their word, as Westland will be keeping us informed of developments here.

On the face of these circumstances, Heroes belongs in rogue-land alright.

That is by far great news for WB and as you say MASSIVE kudos to Gale Winds for doing this, it's not there debt to pay but are willing to as they are the provider, I havent even heard of this from the big wigs, rival,MG and playtech... great start to a good relationship..

What I want to know is,what the outcome is, did Hereo's make a stance and say he's playing dishonetly or what???-

Why has it come to Gake Winds paying and not Heroes who owns the debt??

[maxd]

.... We are changing casino providers since our previous provider had faulty software that allowed people to use pattern software to cheat the casino.

As an ex software engineer of some 15 years and someone who had a particular fascination with RNGs -- I built many over the years -- I can tell you with 99% certainty that they are blowing smoke up the ass of the readers of that post.

Basically they're using semi-tech mumbo jumbo to say it was the software's fault and not theirs. Their thing about "disclose the software", ha! _Nobody_ 'discloses' their software and it would be of very little use if they did. You'd need some pretty hardcore software experts to make much use of the code: the results of the RNG -- not that I believe that cover-story for a second -- are more than sufficient to tell them what they need to know about that aspect of the system.

In fact I can tell you how an RNG is evaluated. You produce a sample space of some several hundreds of thousands of RNG results and that is subjected to statistical analysis. What you're looking for is trends or patterns. Almost all RNGs will have trends or patterns but in the good ones the pattern only occurs over a _vast_ range of results so, for practical purposes, the results are random. In the really good RNGs they are based on truly random data and those (basically) do not have patterns or trends ... but they're hideously expensive. The bottom line is that no one looks at the code except the guy who wrote it or the guy that wants to tweak it: it's the results that matter and that's what everyone uses.

If you want my opinion, and this is _not_ an official Casinomeister position on this, they got caught with their pants down -- quite possibly _before_ WB's issue came to light -- and they're trying to squeak out of this with some dignity intact. Unfortunately they've decided that a smoke-and-mirrors show is the way to do it and that's really just making things worse.

And yes, Heroes is still claiming that WB was cheating and that makes them innocent of all charges, that they were merely the victims of faulty software and therefore acting appropriately and so forth. _That's_ why Galewind is paying the bill, because Heroes can't or won't.

[jetset]

The truth is so often elusive in these cases, and I am trying to establish contact with Gale Winds to give them an opportunity to give their perspective on this slur against their reputation.

[same_old]

wow, just seen your latest post there jetset,

So is this a case of he said she said now??

Heroes are saying the software isnt random and on the other foot we have Gale Winds saying we are no longer supporting Heroe's casino.

Only one of two things here isnt there, the casino admits behind closed doors the software is not right hence them paying out Westland OR Heroes not admitting there is nothing really wrong and staying on the gravytrain in saying the software isnt random as to not pay out Westland.

either way something is pretty fishy here to say the least..

[jetset]

Right - request for comment and RNG certification submitted here:

http://www.galewindsoftware.ca/contact.htm

Galewind Software Corp.
300 - 1275 West 6th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V6H 1A6
Canada

Phone: (604) 909-3845
FAX: (604) 909-3846

Let's see what the other side of the argument is....

[maxd]

Heroes are saying the software isnt random and on the other foot we have Gale Winds saying we are no longer supporting Heroe's casino.

Not quite how it stands. Heroes is saying:
(a) the software was snarfed, and
(b) the player was using a system, and
(c) it was the snarfed software that allowed the player to win, so
(d) we're not paying the player because of (a) + (b) + (c), and besides
(e) we're getting rid of the snarfed software and moving on to something else.

Galewinds is saying:
(a) we're no longer licensing our software to Heroes, and
(b) we're paying the guy that played and won.

You pick which version of events sounds plausible to you.

I will say this though: who's accepting responsibility here and who is passing the buck with both hands?

[Jufo]

If Heroes announces that their blackjack has been faulty then isn't there a case of refunding monies to all players who have lost playing that faulty game?