Heroes Casino - Blackjack issues, slow-pay

[maxd]

My post said "dragged out so long in public". These are the OP's post dates on this subject:

16th November 2008, 11:39 AM
16th November 2008, 05:51 PM
16th November 2008, 06:08 PM
16th November 2008, 06:09 PM
17th November 2008, 04:11 AM
17th November 2008, 04:18 AM
18th November 2008, 11:47 AM
18th November 2008, 05:53 PM
23rd November 2008, 10:57 PM
23rd November 2008, 11:40 PM
24th November 2008, 03:42 PM
25th November 2008, 05:10 AM
25th November 2008, 05:17 AM
27th November 2008, 06:04 AM
13th December 2008, 12:02 AM
14th December 2008, 08:21 PM
15th December 2008, 08:05 PM
17th December 2008, 05:50 PM
23rd December 2008, 04:08 AM
2nd January 2009, 09:43 PM
3rd January 2009, 01:50 PM
11th January 2009, 04:24 AM
25th January 2009, 04:32 PM
31st January 2009, 01:18 PM
11th February 2009, 11:16 AM
19th February 2009, 11:33 PM
20th February 2009, 02:19 AM
26th February 2009, 03:57 AM
26th February 2009, 04:30 AM
2nd March 2009, 05:04 AM
2nd March 2009, 11:53 AM
2nd March 2009, 07:32 PM
5th March 2009, 03:44 AM
5th March 2009, 04:02 AM

That is the very definition of "dragged out in public" if you ask me. You'll note that I didn't say anything either way about the OP being "patient" because that's not the point.

The point is that PAB issues get resolved best if they are fresh and addressed quickly, as indicated in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. This issue fails on both counts.

[maxd]

... The point is that PAB issues get resolved best if they are fresh and addressed quickly ... This issue fails on both counts.

I should have said "PAB issues get resolved best if they are fresh, addressed quickly and not turned into public issues by being debated on the boards. This issue fails on all three counts." Again, all of this is in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

[RobWin]

Something is just not quite right about this case IMO, I do hope that Westlandbowl will get his money but after this length of time and Westlandbowls lack of pro-activeness to let Max or Bryan get involved here to help in this matter just leaves more questions IMO.

Any update on this issue West ??

[maxd]

I should say that my point is not to slag Westland or anything like that. It just so happens that this issue has become the poster child for how _not_ to handle an issue if you have any hopes of getting it resolved via the Pitch-A-Bitch process.

I admire West's sense of honour and such by being patient and understanding and all that. However, in real world situations of this nature -- though not specifically this case -- letting things drag on, posting about them dozens of times on the forums and assuming that the PAB is the last resort are all pretty much misguided.

As I've said, PABs have the best chance of being resolved if they are filed quickly, pursued vigorously and ended promptly. Most casinos already know this and respond accordingly. There is no stigma attached because if they are handled promptly and professionally they are never seen nor discussed in public. It can be a quick, clean, "everybody wins" situation.

Unfortunately this issue now has next to zero chance of being included in that happy group because of the way it has been handled. Sorry but that's just the way it pans out if it is handled in the way we've seen it done here.

West's best chance at this point is to have the casino come through for him voluntarily, which is clearly what he's been banking on since the beginning. If they don't then this thing is likely to get messy because it's so far past its "best before" date.

[Casinomeister]

Just a quick admin note - public discussion is just that - it's a discussion. This is a big forum and just a segment of Casinomeister; it's just about impossible for me to keep up with every issue on the message board.

If you want action - then PAB. This will get direct action from Max, and he flags these issues for me to consider for the rogue pit (I am the "roguemeister" don't forget).

You can also PM me or use the "Report Post" function. And then harrass me with follow-up emails. Sometimes these issues are the step-children of bad timing (the moderators or I may be out of town, other major issues, etc.).

WB PMd me about this issue some time ago, said he wasn't PABing yet. I need to check.

[Westland Bowl]

From November 15th to December 6th: Documentation issues- I had to provide digital scans of my driver's license and passport. My passport had expired and I had to wait for a renewed passport.

December 6th to January 9th: Waiting for Heroes Casino to validate, audit, review, examine my play.

January 9th: Contacted by Heroes to set up a phone call to discuss my play.

January 16th: Phone call. We agreed to terms. Heroes management supposed to contact owner regarding terms "next week".

January 23rd: I contact Heroes management. They still needed to hear from owner. A whole week goes by and they still "haven't heard from the owner?" I decided to push to be paid in full.

January 23rd to January 26th: War of words between me and Heroes.

January 26th: Cyberluck contacted by me. Discussion between me and Heroes stop.

January 26th to present: Waiting for Cyberluck to finish their forensic analysis.

So it wasn't until January 16th that I found out for sure that Heroes didn't want to pay me in full. Perhaps I should have realized something was up when Heroes insisted on a digital scan of my driver's license AND unexpired passport (to visit them in person?)

[maxd]

Like I said man, all kudos to you for your patience and diligence and all the rest of it but _if_ you're doing with a "no pay" situation ... doing a PAB sooner than later would have been the wiser move, IMHO.

[same_old]

Like I said man, all kudos to you for your patience and diligence and all the rest of it but _if_ you're doing with a "no pay" situation ... doing a PAB sooner than later would have been the wiser move, IMHO.

totally Agree with Max here, it would have held more wieght coming from Max as he represents casinomeister the online casino watchdog, you can bet your bottoom dollar Hereo's know about this site and the ears and eyes would have pricked up when they seen an email from Max, he would have then either gotten your money or he would see the indicators that they are giving you the run around, he would have taken the next step and sent them to rogue hell.

Seriously mate, other people have deposited at this place and if Hereo's are playing this game they should have been outed long ago and maybe people wouldn't have despoited there.

IMO

P.S- hope your taking care of yourself WB

[Casinomeister]

Going over WB's PAB, he's being accused of "advantage Play".

Unfortunately many operators confuse "card counting" or advantage play as cheating. I've heard the tiresome mantra "If the player was caught card counting in Vegas, he'd be thrown out and his winnings confiscated." Well this may be true in a bad Hollywood film (and I think they did this in Rainman), but advantage play is legal.

Unless of course a device is used:
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-4...l#NRS465Sec070

Advantage play has been upheld by the Nevada State Supreme court as to being "not cheating" - that was a few years ago. In fact, if you are a known card counter, I don't believe that the Las Vegas casinos can keep you out legally. It's a public place and card counting does not break any laws.

Just a preemptive FYI

[maxd]

As readers will no doubt gather from B's post Westland has filed his PAB. It was submitted to Heroes the same day.