Account blocked by Grand Virtual casino - Help needed

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

Let's not start jumping to a lot of conclusions and start hammering away at a casino that has acted in good faith. They are giving this player a second chance.

I'm sure you meant this comment in general and not just to me, but I'm not hammering away at a casino, or jumping to a conclusion. I know for a fact that Grand Virtual's standard mode of operation when they decide not to pay a player is to not pay him his winnings or even refund a deposit because it has happened to me, and it has happened to people I referred to them, back before they tried to steal from me. I got a satisfactory result, but it took a lot of my time and effort, and I doubt that most people are as diligent as I am at getting paid by rogue operations (IE, the brouhaha I went through to get paid by Virtual in the brief period they were on probation). I personally would never play at Grand Virtual again after the ordeal I went through with them, and its a shame considering they used to pay inside of 24 hours and I considered them to be one of the better run casino groups at one time, but I find the theft of deposits to be too big of an obstacle for any webmaster to responsibly promote them.

Refusal to even refund a deposit, is a pretty absurd and indefensible policy to have, and it is something that the casino management needs to change procedure on. I certainly understand/recognize the right of the casino to not pay suspected fraudsters, but stealing their deposit? I'm sorry if they are accredited, but it doesn't matter. Stealing deposits is rogue behavior to me that is severe enough to not mince words over. Regardless of whether or not this guy is legit, I think that the practice of refusing to refund a deposit is rogue-like enough to warrant pulling from the accredited section, and I think if you are promoting them as accredited, that you should bring this issue up with them, because I think most players/affiliates/webmasters would agree with me. Again, all the respect in the world, I'm not here to bash, I'm here to bring up what I consider to be a legitimate concern.

[Paj]

I am logged in and playing again, not getting my hopes up until I cash out.

When I saw the casino's response of "We consider this matter closed." I was furious and if they had of confiscated the deposit in my eyes it would of been theft. Unfortunatly as said there really would of been nothing I could have done.

A huge thank you to Casinomeister for giving the casino a poke and getting the problem resolved

[BBKPoker]

I still think Grand Virtual needs to explain why it is that their standard operating procedure for people they decide are fraudulent is to steal their deposits, this happened to me and others, is documented in other threads, and has never been explained.

[PSB]

Originally Posted by BBKPoker

I still think Grand Virtual needs to explain why it is that their standard operating procedure for people they decide are fraudulent is to steal their deposits, this happened to me and others, is documented in other threads, and has never been explained.

BBKPoker interesting suggestion, but I think you are mistaken.
I looked up your past posts.
I found
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...uestion-2.html
which is about the Virtual Group.
Grand Virtual is different.
So maybe you concluded wrongly?

[BBKPoker]

Nope, I'm not at all mistaken.

I had plenty of problems (and pitched several bitches ) about the Virtual Group, specifically Cool Cat Casino, Prism, and Palace of Chance. I've also had a number of problems with Imperial Casino, Casino Elegance and Casino Treasure who belong to Grand Virtual, and all of whom used to pay me overnight back before they disallowed US players, and then one day decided I was a bonus abuser even though I was doing most of my recreational gambling on there at that point, and often depositing with no bonus at all. I was told my account was blocked, I would get none of my winnings, and none of my deposits would be refunded. Their form email was nearly identical to ones two different friends received, after I had referred them. I know they both played with bonuses, but neither fits the description of a bonus hunter or abuser, they both like slots and high edge table games like roulette and let it ride, and all they really care about is that they get paid on the infrequent occasion that they request a cashout in a prompt and courteous manner.

However, unlike some of the other casino forum members who don't read the PAB instructions, back when I gambled a lot online, I did my best to talk to casino representatives and phone managers at casinos prior to going to Bryan, which I view as a last resort. He's a busy man. I also think that most forum members don't do nearly enough to contact and workout their complaints with a casino before posting an inflammatory thread on here, which causes casinos to not take the site as seriously, especially since several of the complaints that come in are from obviously novice bonus hunters who Bryan filters out as fraudulent probably within the first email response he gets back from the casino.

I've had very few times where I actually felt the need to post something as a thread (I think the only full out slam of a site that I've posted since I complained about the Virtual Group was regarding Absolute Poker, and I think most people would understand why that was warranted). I also made sure to include tons of evidence and cite reliable sources rather than just blindly claim online sites are rigged. Hell, I don't even really play on Absolute, I just thought it was important people understand how mathematically impossible it was for any explanation other than outright fraud and cheating to be going on. I also have frequently told people to back off of casino reps who post diligently here, or who make idiotic posts about site-rigging, I took that Greek Thorodisk or whoever to task re: his posts, and the Rival Rep had a thread about Mayan Fortune where he was extremely detailed and courteous in his response, and still got slammed. That all needs to stop. I view Casinomeister as a valuable resource that should be used sparingly when all other options are exhausted, and as such, generally, when I say a site has a problem I consider large enough that it needs to be addressed before they can continue to be promoted, people actually listen to what I have to say. Unfortunately, most people (fraudsters especially) don't have the same level of patience I do.

I've also sent Bryan several items off of his Amazon wishlist so I don't feel that bad when I need to send him a message or two.

[lojo]

That's a great post, bbk. Almost a manual. That was awesome of you to take the time to explain.

[chuchu59]

This is serious. If the reason given for not refunding deposits was bonus abuse, then this is downright 'rogue' behaviour. There has been a lot of debate on 'bonus abuse' but we were always talking about 'winnings' being confiscated and even the worst casinos in my book did not try to confiscate deposits. Are they really so desperate after the loss of US players?

[Casinomeister]

Good post bbk - thanks for the DVDs

By the way, the Grand Virtual group has never accepted US bets - I'm just making sure you're not confusing them with another group of casinos.

[jerrylee]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

By the way, the Grand Virtual group has never accepted US bets - I'm just making sure you're not confusing them with another group of casinos.

with all due respect Casinomeister this is incorrect. Up until ~Oct 2006 Grand Virtual did accept US players for real money. Now it's play money only.

Anyway, nice to see Paj got what he wanted...his account opened and even a bonus to boot.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by jerrylee

with all due respect Casinomeister this is incorrect. Up until ~Oct 2006 Grand Virtual did accept US players for real money. Now it's play money only.

Anyway, nice to see Paj got what he wanted...his account opened and even a bonus to boot.

Well I know from the git-go, the Grand Virtual properties did not accept US bets. And when they were listed on this site years ago.

Check out their casino website screen shots from the Wayback machine:

Casino Treasure 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/199901250...otreasure.com/

Casino Fantasy
http://web.archive.org/web/199805041...nofantasy.com/

Imperial Casino
http://web.archive.org/web/200003020...ialcasino.com/

all state "void in US" - perhaps they temporarily opened their doors, but shut them again. I could find out for sure but this is beside the point.

I've been in touch with them and they explained in detail what had happened. It seems the weekend crew had some miscommunications - but it is sorted out. Good thing. I'm tiring of the fraud crap. We've had another Casinomeister member (senior member) caught out as a fraudster today.

The bottom line is - if you try to pull a fast one, you will get caught. Fraudulant accounts are usually pretty easy to detect.