I won the random jackpot! Palace of chance,,(or did I)

[lauriejim]

but i wanted you to know some facts; andre former mgr of poc and victoria former mgr of cool cat ran off together and are now in europe. chris was given cool cat and dean was given poc. as you know i think alot of dean and cindy at club player i know boo boo boo. i will not take sides in this as i can see both and do not want hard feelings with anyone. you have proved your point very well like you said you would. but i do know the facts on 3 of the casinos at virtual and again chris is mgr at cool cat and prism and dean has poc. allison is the mgr at cirrus because they tried to get me to come back after christine left who by the way is victoria yes the former mgr at coolcat. so i think the root of alot of probs at virtual lie with andre and christine/ victoria. andre made alot of deals i think on the side and lied to alot of people including me. i could not stand christine and he said she was no longer there at cirrus. he didnt tell me that she changed her name to victoria and was at cool cat as mgr. imagine how foolish i felt when a former employee there emailed me with the newes. so yes mystic there are several at virtual i dont like but there are some good people there i do care alot for. i really do hope you get what ever your entitled to

[lojo]

Mystic,

I only know what I read on this forum about your issue. When I spoke to Chris I didn't ask for any details about your issue. I'm not 'taking the side' of the casino, nor am I championing your cause (yet).

Firstly, I have never accused you of abusing bonuses or anything else.
If you claim that your deposits outweighed your 'comps', it is incumbant upon you to show that, so I have asked for your numbers.
I have stated that you have highjacked threads because you've inserted your issue in several unrelated threads that mutated from the subject line into your issue.

I don't enjoy 'defending' a not recommended casino, but if no one else will add balance, ask questions, and state facts, I choose to. I'm sorry if you take it personally.

And now on to 'devil's advocate' in no particular order in response to specific items in your last post here:

I have no idea what numbers Andre had in front of him at any given time in your chats nor why he changed the numbers (how many 'free chips', what your deposits were, etc.) The bottom lineis you did or did not fall into the lifetime deposit/chip ratio caveat.
The rule sucks and should only ever be invoked in extreme situations IMO. It's unfortunate it was used on you. All I have ever really asked of you in this regard is to show me that it was used unfairly (fair meaning according to their terms). I have repeatedly stated that if you did not fall foul of the T&C I would stand by you, for whatever that is worth.

Erased account: I seriously doubt that they have 'wiped' your numbers. You may not have access to them, but they certainly do. If they do not, then your records should be the only 'evidence' needed to back up your claim. We still don't know if you are claiming that your deposits exceeded your bonuses.

Playthrough amounts or bonuses that occured after the random jackpot certainly have no bearing on the conditions at the time the jackpot was hit.

Your quote of casinos assumedly 'managed' by Chris is not correct. In my recollection he was listing the casinos within the Virtual Group, not the casinos he manages. As well, other posters' references to him as manager of PoC are probably misunderstandings.

As I mentioned in another post, Chris has taken the advice of his GM and is not participating. If you look at the three or four threads objectively, you can see why. He came onto this board because I invited him to try to balance some of the obviously inflated vitriol that was being spewed at his casino. This is the last post where I will try to answer for him, because one- nobody's paying me to, and two- I have better things to do. I'm just trying to answer what I can of what you asked me here.

The numbers you posted HERE are your c2p deposits? They don't help much out of context.

Remember I told you in a PM that I didn't need any proof, but if you wanted help sorting or indexing the numbers I would help you? Why? So you could make your claim, backed up by facts, or drop the subject.

I did not "ask or requet that Chrris reimburse any funds until I tried to play at one of HIS casino's and was treated terribly! see...http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post163156

This is where I started 'defending' Chris, I think. You had found a printed coupon in one of his posts, the coupon clearly showed the expiration date as almost a month past.

In no way, shape, or form did he need to honor that coupon for you, but he did. It was a no-win situation for him.


Mystic, if your deposit/bonus ratio as of the moment you hit the random jackpot precluded you from getting your winnings, it is just another unfortunate instance of a player being in the wrong casino at the right time. It happens all the time and it sucks. That term should be on every coupon and every page of their casino and website, but that ain't gonna happen.

I assume that the C2P deposits are not 'chargeback-able' or you would have done that when you threatened to chargeback your other deposits. And that is why andre said, 'at least we get the click to pay...deposits'.

Honestly, you can't expect a casino to refund your deposits just because they are refunding a 'group' of players from a certain region and timeframe and bonus strategies, it just doesn't make sense.

As well, and this may sound harsh. IF they don't owe you the Random Jackpot hit because of a written term, and you threatened chargebacks to be paid, I would call that less than fair.

Conversely, if your deposits outstripped you bonuses as of the moment you hit, and there is no other valid reason within their terms and conditions not to pay you, they should be held accountable, period.

Unless you dispute something I've stated here as a fact, I'm mum on this issue until and unless the numbers are published. If they are in your favor I will support you in any way I can. If they are in PoC's favor or never published, I probably won't bring it up again if you don't.

[mysticjoz]

I Appologize to EVERYONE for the length of this... and repetition every week!

Originally Posted by lojo

Mystic,
Firstly, I have never accused you of abusing bonuses or anything else.
If you claim that your deposits outweighed your 'comps', it is incumbant upon you to show that, so I have asked for your numbers. And They will come. I am not the one working on them anymoreI have stated that you have highjacked threads because you've inserted your issue in several unrelated threads that mutated from the subject line into your issue. firstly I responded to anyone posting a complaint regarding thier issue. IF it related to mine oh well.
I don't enjoy 'defending' a not recommended casino, but if no one else will add balance, ask questions, and state facts, I choose to. I'm sorry if you take it personally. how can I not.. it's just another friday night right lojo?And now on to 'devil's advocate' in no particular order in response to specific items in your last post here:

I have no idea what numbers Andre had in front of him at any given time in your chats nor why he changed the numbers (how many 'free chips', what your deposits were, etc.) The bottom lineis you did or did not fall into the lifetime deposit/chip ratio caveat.
The rule sucks and should only ever be invoked in extreme situations IMO.
Personally the ONLY reason I have pursued this is the promises made to me, The facts stated in chats, and the lies and discreptancies stated in chats. PERIOD Regardless of bonuses or free chips I was told how to cash out to get paid.. I followed those rules to a T, there was no reason to lead me on to believe the money was on it's way and then change his mind in the end. The manager set up the T&c's at the cashout.. I followed all the rules and should have been paid IMO
It's unfortunate it was used on you. All I have ever really asked of you in this regard is to show me that it was used unfairly (fair meaning according to their terms). I have repeatedly stated that if you did not fall foul of the T&C I would stand by you, for whatever that is worth. and I have repeatedly stated that terms and conditions were given to me by Dean who had spoken to Andre, OBVIOUSLY I would not reverse a $4000.00 withdrawal to $2500.00 had I not been "following thier rules"
Erased account: I seriously doubt that they have 'wiped' your numbers. You may not have access to them, but they certainly do. If they do not, then your records should be the only 'evidence' needed to back up your claim. We still don't know if you are claiming that your deposits exceeded your bonuses.
Do you seriously doubt that lojo? I have never once lied to you or anyone else on this forum. When I went back to POC when I was invited AFTER Andre left my account pages were gone. just like flappie666

br600

and there are alot more... personally I don't care what country people are from.. It seems to be the norm for POC and COOLCAt to wipe out accounts after big wins IMO
Playthrough amounts or bonuses that occured after the random jackpot certainly have no bearing on the conditions at the time the jackpot was hit.
They do if they told me this was a TERM and a CONDITION in order to get paid my winnings! Honestly I was given a playthrough amount on a cash deposit win.... but I did it anyway!
Your quote of casinos assumedly 'managed' by Chris is not correct. In my recollection he was listing the casinos within the Virtual Group, not the casinos he manages. As well, other posters' references to him as manager of PoC are probably misunderstandings. misunderstandings, fine .. where's Dean been all these months?and Chris himself stated this

The numbers you posted HERE are your c2p deposits? They don't help much out of context.
Not really take that amount add in the bank at $1300.00 and his first reply for 2000.00 in bonuses is still too high but deposits will outweigh bonuses.
Remember I told you in a PM that I didn't need any proof, but if you wanted help sorting or indexing the numbers I would help you? Why? So you could make your claim, backed up by facts, or drop the subject. I have help and I will not drop the subject. If the manager is allowed to "change the rules at his own discrection" I posted his statements proving that he promised me payment and proving that he changed the bonus amount repeatedly . PERIOD

This is where I started 'defending' Chris, I think. You had found a printed coupon in one of his posts, the coupon clearly showed the expiration date as almost a month past.
and chris told YOU flat out..Lojo,
Thanks for the help. Even though you won't play with us, it's nice to hear a voice of reason every once in awhile. In regards to the post of that free chip, mystic's right, I should have left it open. I can't leave it open forever, but as long as the post is near the front of this forum's hottest threads (even though that coupon should have never been placed there at all if I had known the rules), I should honor it. She is right about that. So, I have made that coupon accessible to everyone to try out the VIP Lounge until the 31st of June. Only fair I think.

In no way, shape, or form did he need to honor that coupon for you, but he did. It was a no-win situation for him. He should not have posted it if he did NOT want anyone to use it

Mystic, if your deposit/bonus ratio as of the moment you hit the random jackpot precluded you from getting your winnings, it is just another unfortunate instance of a player being in the wrong casino at the right time. It happens all the time and it sucks. That term should be on every coupon and every page of their casino and website, but that ain't gonna happen.

I assume that the C2P deposits are not 'chargeback-able' or you would have done that when you threatened to chargeback your other deposits. And that is why andre said, 'at least we get the click to pay...deposits'. Come on lojo that in itself states he is aware that he did not include those amounts! It's all BS if they gave me new T&C's when I went to cash out why change after that and why lead me on.
Honestly, you can't expect a casino to refund your deposits just because they are refunding a 'group' of players from a certain region and timeframe and bonus strategies, it just doesn't make sense. nor does picking a couple of countries and deciding they are a "group" all mute points.
As well, and this may sound harsh. IF they don't owe you the Random Jackpot hit because of a written term, and you threatened chargebacks to be paid, I would call that less than fair. You know that is NOT true lojo.

Conversely, if your deposits outstripped you bonuses as of the moment you hit, and there is no other valid reason within their terms and conditions not to pay you, they should be held accountable, period.

Unless you dispute something I've stated here as a fact, I'm mum on this issue until and unless the numbers are published. If they are in your favor I will support you in any way I can. If they are in PoC's favor or never published, I probably won't bring it up again if you don't.

In favor or not they will be published. as I have said before I have never lied to anyone here, nor do I ever intend to.... Is it next Friday yet?

[Random#rs]

Quoting lojo/Mysticjoz:
Playthrough amounts or bonuses that occured after the random jackpot certainly have no bearing on the conditions at the time the jackpot was hit.
They do if they told me this was a TERM and a CONDITION in order to get paid my winnings! Honestly I was given a playthrough amount on a cash deposit win.... but I did it anyway!

lojo, something is wrong here. This doesn't look right at all. Why!? For what reason!!, does a Casino put a WR on you, on a cash no bonus deposit win!? What kind of stupid trick is that!? What's he trying to accomplish!? What kind of T&C, that anyone in this world, has ever heard of, would he be trying to satisfy??

Maybe I'm missing something but this is the strangest T&c I've ever heard of.

[lojo]

Originally Posted by Random#rs

lojo, something is wrong here. This doesn't look right at all. Why!? For what reason!!, does a Casino put a WR on you, on a cash no bonus deposit win!? What kind of stupid trick is that!? What's he trying to accomplish!? What kind of T&C, that anyone in this world, has ever heard of, would he be trying to satisfy??

Maybe I'm missing something but this is the strangest T&c I've ever heard of.

It is a lame ass term it goes like this in some incarnations:

Lifetime Max Cashout Rule: When a player's total amount of bonuses received over the lifetime of their account is greater than or equal to the total amount of deposits made, the maximum cashout will be ten times the deposit from which the player hit their win..

From what I understand it was only meant to apply to two specific situations:
The personal jackpot thingy (not real series slots), and people who, as demonstrated by their deposit and bonus history, have not given the casino a 'fair shot' via house edge [I could have that wrong, Chris was more specific but I was inebriated (go figger)]

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying.

Look at the outrageous bonuses they offer! They have to have a caveat to cover them. A child could go to aka23 or any other EV/beat bonus site out there and do the math.

As others have said, (we're talking about virtual's bonus system not you Mystic) the bonuses invite 'abuse', they're too easy to beat. It is a business model based on a marketing concept that just isn't working for them. Pity the poor uninformed player who doesn't read the terms, or reads them with hope clouding their eyes. It's crap, but it's real. Many people on here have had the 10x experience.
I feel shitty when I'm doing 'research' in play mode and bring down a RJ, where's that money go? Who knows? Do rogue RTG's have troll/clones out there spinning in free mode to bring the jackpots down? Who knows? I doubt it though.

If a bonus sounds too good to be true, it might be. Why not ask up front? Why not communicate before applying wagers? (again, Mystic, this is not about you I'm trying to answer Random#s ?) It is a lot of work and it takes a level of trust. But an informed player may well do okay.

[happygobrokey]

Originally Posted by lojo

Many people on here have had the 10x experience.

considerably fewer get to enjoy a 10" experience. much more common is 5" twice. am i right, ladies?

[mysticjoz]

Originally Posted by happygobrokey

considerably fewer get to enjoy a 10" experience. much more common is 5" twice. am i right, ladies?

happy...You just made my night !

[mysticjoz]

Well lojo, I needed to let you see this one... this was posted by lanidar in the other thread regarding cool cat (virtual is vitual and this tells the truth by a Former Employee!) funny.. in one chat to Andre I asked him how he slept at night... this former emplyee actually had a conscience.

Also Thank Lanidar for this valuable info!

And well , about the Virtual Group ... I wish I could say more things , but I gotta watch my back and be very careful with this "freaks" , the only reason why I stayed there was only because I needed that money and it was a nice salary, when I started working there I ignore a lot of things, then I start finding out little by little about all the dirty things they do to the players, and most of the times I used to come back home feeling so bad for the players, I used to ( believe it or not) take care of them, and always try to keep them happy, but it really dissapointed me when they didn't pay on time, they "run" credits cards without the customer's autorization, they promisse big bonuses that at the end you can never cash out....and a lot of more things together , I got sick of that!!!! and I felt so bad because the customers called and yelled at me, obviously when they call in to ask about "not autorized charges" the manager are never there! how strange huh ? Sometimes I was on the customer's side, but of course I was not suposse to say anything...so I decided to quit and get rid of them and all those lies that really got me sick ... when I quited Grafix they didn't want me too and they offered me so many things just to convince me , but I knew they were not going to change. This is muy true story ... but after I stop working there I felt soooo free! But I hate all those thieves ... I know someday they will have to pay for all of this ... the story is much longer...there are a lot of things that you ignore , but I preffer not to mention.

I hope we could have a great relationship!

heather

Lanidar thanks again this was huge as was your sharing it!

[mysticjoz]

Well Well Well, and.. although Palace of Chance is not mentioned it's the same old same old... like I said for the longest time lojo, my story never changed. It was always the same. This tell's the nightmare story sooo many forum members have been saying.
And I just love the part about the credit cards!
Again thanks Lanidar!

I've just been working with a friend of mine and came up with this very interesting reading......


Quote:
Do not play at Virtual Casino, Prism Casino, Cirrus Casino or Cool Cat Casino-

- They are all the SAME!!!!!! Yup! they are all the same. I'm an ex-employee of this company I worked there for many years, and I can prove you guys that they are all the same , the all share the same office, and they make their customers think that they're separate, so BE CAREFUL!!! All they do is to steal money from you guys! They have the same customers for all 4 of them. They offer you the moon and sky to get you to deposit, and they GUESS WHAT? they will NEVER pay you, or they will try to make you reverse the money you have on pending ! Just because they don't want to pay you ! Remember...if you are a customer of them , and have played there for a while, you must know what I'm talking about! They keep track of all your credit cards and security codes when you try to deposit so that when your deposits get declined , they use another credit card processor and they get the money out of your account, without asking you for permission. Did you know about this? This people gets thousands of chargebacks every month, one time I saw one of the managers running a credit card without asking the client for permission , and she took $10,000 out of his account! - If you want to know more about them, please write me and I'll be more then happy to reply - They are located in San Jose, Costa Rica. The address is : Sabana Sur, Oficentro Ejecutivo La Sabana, Building 7 , 7 Floor. International phone number: 00506-296-4336 ---> just do a test and you will see that I'm not lying. Call this international number, ask for Virtual Casino, they will transfer you to the support center. And then do the same thing, call this international number and ask for Prism, Cirrus or Cool Cat casino, and it will be the same . They will probably tell you that those casinos are in the same building , but it's a whole lie! They are all the same!!!! For more details, contact me Heather

Quote:
- HELLO! I would like to thank all the people that has been mailing me, obviously because I'm not saying a single lie here! Once again my idea is to warm all the people that continue playing at VIRTUAL, PRISM, CIRRUS, COOL CAT!!!! WATCH OUT!!! All they want to this is steal your money some how! Why do you guys think that "virtualted" doesn't say a word ??? ( Steve Fink is his real name) he is the manager for Prism ( Paul ) and he's also Ted or Teddy on Virtual. Now guys, here's some more stuff you might like to read! If you have played with them for a while, and you read this, you must know what I'm talking about!!!! Here I'm going to give you my personal experience, they are not a BIG but a HUGE SCAM!!!!! 1. Have you ever try to make a deposit using your credit card, on the system tells you "declined" and when you get your bank statment you find out that those transactions "somehow" where successful and actually for double the amount that you attempted to ???? 2. When you try to use a bonus, they make you play deposit+bonus 30,000 X - Actually there's no way on the system for you to determinate how many times you have played the money, which is obviously good for them, they will always ask you to continue playing....why ? Well, the more you play , the highest is the possibility for you to lose all your money so they will avoid your payout. 3. In how many days...weeks...months...did you get your payout ? If they actually pay you. Aren't you tyred of being calling them and have ALWAYS to hear the same STUPID story ???? - Come on ! this guys don't pay you. 4. USE THIS TRICK! If you have money pending, call them out , tell them that you wish to deposit $1,000 or more and everybody will love to talk to you! Actually they will lie to you , telling you that you will receive your payout very soon! This way, you will probably believe this whole CRAP and deposit again! BADDDD THING! 5. When you have a big amount of money on pending, have you receive a call from Christine ( the bitch of CIRRUS), Tanya ( fat ASS OLD WOMAN faking a nice and sexy voice from Prism) , Roger ( the gay of Virtual )....This is very typical, once you have more than $2,000 on pending, they will call you trying to convince you to reverse that money , get a bonus on top of that and play it 500 times!!!!! NOOOOO WAYYYYYYYYYYYY! please never accept a deal like this!!!! 6. Once again, very important, do not give your credit card number!!!!! do not try to it through the system, they keep track of all your credit cards, so that way they can take money out of your account whenver they want!!!! I still have more and more details ! Believe me ! I was there for quite a long time! BE CAREFUL!!!!

Quote:
I don't have the email or post, but remember Heather saying her friend was jumped in a shopping center parking lot, but some guy saw the 3 men, yelled at them, they ran off...... shortly after is when Heather went MIA ....

I asked my friend a question and made this reply....

Quote:
Yes, and at the same time she told me that...dang it....some girl quit (was it Christine..??) Virtual, then went back and Tej made her take a polygraph test???

I truly doubt I'll be able to find those emails, two hard drive crashes since talking with her....but will try and see.....

She told me that Pauls real name Steve Fink, who is also Virtual Ted.....

As you can see, The Virtual Group is one God damn lying mess!!!


lanidar
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[lojo]

Diversion - Hyperbole - smoke - mirrors and absolutely irrelevent to this particular issue.