Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[lojo]

I've been trying to stay mum, and maybe should. I might just have to eat all my words on this thread.

"It's never too late to do the right thing"

[jpgah]

I also got my deposit back via check, but they are still holding over $500 of my winnings. These guys are thieves, plain and simple. I PAB'ed, but I havent complained to eCOGRA yet, but I will do that today since it sounds like Casinomeister has hit a roadblock.

I wonder if these guys care that they are going to be on the rogue list? I guess not.

[SuitedPower]

I wonder if these guys care that they are going to be on the rogue list? I guess not.

They sure should be, this is outright theft.

[skystick]

I also posted a PAB 10 days ago but still no news.I also gonna refer it to eCOGRA

[gamerkip]

I mailed FL yesterday and asked if they had maybe changed their minds. They said NO...so I said I saw no other option than to contact eCOGRA.

I got a mail back, they said: sorry but you will not get your deposit back

Anyhow, I just looked to my neteller and it seems I have got my deposit back of the 2 accounts + €50 extra :s

I will post my email conversation with FL later....gonna watch soccer now

cheers!

[vinylweatherman]

I mailed FL yesterday and asked if they had maybe changed their minds. They said NO...so I said I saw no other option than to contact eCOGRA.

I got a mail back, they said: sorry but you will not get your deposit back

Anyhow, I just looked to my neteller and it seems I have got my deposit back of the 2 accounts + €50 extra :s

I will post my email conversation with FL later....gonna watch soccer now

cheers!

On what grounds are they saying they have the right to steal the deposit. In effect this is no voiding the wager, but changing the outcome from one where the player wins to where the casino wins. This is just as bad as rigging the games at the point of play. If eCogra allow this, they will suffer further loss of credibility. If there is widescale ripping off going on, the casino industry is getting the better of it. I am sure more players' dollars are ripped off by rogue casinos operating outside of any meaningful regulatory framework than casino dollars being lost to fraudulent players.

At least in this case, they said one thing, and did another, and you got the deposit back.

The industry only have themselves to blame now they find it near impossible to gain the trust of NEW players (without the use of really big "loss leader" bonuses), who have no prior experience of whether they are going to get paid if they win by the groups, and only see what people write in forums about good treatment and bad treatment. Players who feel wronged post more vociferously than those who were paid on time. Getting paid is what is expected, one doesn't sing the praises of a group just because they pay what they owe on a bet, it is just expected of them.

[powerball]

MY CASE HAS BEEN RESOLVED!

It seems like my case has finaly been resolved! It looks like the pressure from eCOGRA was to much for Fortune Lounge. 10 hours ago my win was transfered back to my NETeller account. Finally! I havent got a mail from eCOGRA yet, but my guess is that eCOGRA made a ruling on Fortune Lounge that they had no other choice but to pay me, as I didn't break a single rule in their T&C.. (And by locking my account they missed out on some action asweel (see winning screenshots thread ) )

I reckon there wil be posted a Casinomeister statement of some kind somewhere, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have now been paid and the case has been resolved, atleast on my part.

One quote comes into my mind right now.

Homer Simpson: Beeeeeer

[gamerkip]

Here is my email conversation. As you can read in the converation, FL keeps telling me I can forget about my money...2 days ago I started mailing again. Yesterday, I got €150 back, meanwhile I was still mailing with FL. I had two accounts with each 50 in it, so this makes 100 not 150 :S (I had one other account where I deposited 50 and withdrawd 38 before all this happened(so I got the 38), I guess they are making a mistake here, offcourse I don't mind, serves them right!)

Until now I have not received an email why I got my deposit back. Anyhow I am glad to have my deposit back. I still will contact eCOGRA since they forfeited my winnings and also because of other players who did not get their deposit/winnings cashed

I will let everybody know what happens, cheers!


Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!

Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:



Hi Robert
Thank you for your e-mail.

I have taken a look at your query and read over all the details. Unfortunately Robert based on the casino’s terms and conditions we as well as players need to abide by these terms this is to protect the casino as well as the players and to continue the fairness at the casino.
Thank you for your understanding with regards to the above information.

Kind regards
Craig
Casino desk

I didn't get the opinion of the FL staff...I really wish to know their vieuw on all this, but they won't tell me...really strange since I got my deposit's back..



Hi,

I know my case is closed! I know I will not get my money back! I just ask the opinion of you're FL staff! Nothing more! It is the last thing I will ask! Will you give me the opinion or not, please replay this last time!

Good day,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.
Your case is closed with the Casino. Nothing we can add, due to your accounts situation.

Kind regards

Nico

Casino Support





Hey,

I have 2 accounts with €100 of my own money in it. Don't you have the respect to at least answer my e-mail below for that...Like I said, I am really really curious! This isn't about my money anymore. I just want to know the FL staff opinion. Nothing more.

Regards,
Roberto


I did not get a response on the email below so I sended the email above again





Hello,

"In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account."

Yess, that's is exactly the term where I will inform eCOGRA about. It pains me to see the FL staff doesn't admit there mistake. "Learn their lesson" by this faulty written term, pay the players since the casino accepeted the players and their bets and rewrite their T&C.

It seems you're casino staff looks on this subject in the short period instead of looking too the long period. FL saves money by not paying these "bonus abuse" players. But, by now, many websites have taking you're FL-group of their respected "you can play here for save"-list aka Accredited-list aka SaveToPlay-list. You know what I mean. So in the long run you're casino group FL will lose a lot of profit...

Can you please inform me, what the casino staff's opinion is on this conclusion since I am really curious! I almost can't believe you're casino staff is so stupid they are missing this point. Besides their selves it is also very bad to the rest of the online gaming industry who do are fair. I mean it, please let me know and I will stop mailing since I realize I will not accomplish anything by contacting the casino DeskSupport any more

Kind Regards and Goodday,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

As per your our previous correspondence with you:-

Your accounts have been locked by our player security company, due to the fact that (after having investigated your accounts) they identified "promotional abuse" from you. (Please be aware that this was not decided on a whim, but after a thorough investigation into the gameplay on your Fortune Lounge accounts.)

In addition to this please be aware that when you registered your account/s with the casinos, you stated that you had read and accepted the terms and conditions of the casino.

In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account. (if you would like to verify this, please go to the casino website and view the terms and conditions.)

I am sorry to hear that you feel the need to take this matter further, this is entirely your choice.

However, please note that this matter is now considered closed by our player secuirty company.

Kind regards
Garreth
Casino Support Desk





Hello Casinodesk Support,

By now, 10 days ago, I kindly asked, since I always keep my matters, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back. I waited long hoping you're FL staff would admit it handled incorrect and illegal. I warned FL that I would undertake action if this should not be the case.

I have tried several ways to get my accounts unlocked or to see my winnings and deposit cashed-out (since I do not have a change to meet the WR if I am locked)

Since I did not see any money from you(no re-deposit/no winnings) or have got any information about this "rouged" action of you're FL staff I see no other option then to contact eCOGRA. Please know that my wish was to resolve this peacefully but I have no other choice.

Goodday,

I suspect a replay,

Regards

Roberto

[BruceW47]

Here's an idea - who wants to join me in an attempt to persuade Neteller to shut down the merchant accounts of all the Fortune Lounge casinos? I realize that USA and soon, Canada, will not be allowed to use Neteller - but there's still the rest of the world, and I think Fortune Lounge would not be too happy if faced with the prospect of losing their Neteller accounts.
I think if enough of us all lodged complaints with Neteller against the roguish and crooked behaviour of Fortune Lounge, that they would probably listen. And it's quite possible that Fortune Lounge would change their mind on withholding our money.

What do you guys think of that?

[vinylweatherman]

So, FL are now saying that if they don't like the way you play, this gives them the right not just to void the bet, but reverse the outcome so that they win.
Worse, there is no definition of "promotional abuse", so they can just decide that a player fits the description and confiscate all the money.
Even rogue casinos rarely go this far, Crystal Palace used to lock accounts refund the deposits of winners, and keep quiet about losers.
FL are still aggressively marketing with bonuses, so they are going to be encountering more players who they are going to have to rip off if they find their style of play not to their likeing.
It is worth complaining to eCogra, as I am sure this action lies outside the remit of their eGap code that all sealholders are supposed to adhere to (which might be why they are paying out when they realise the threats to complain to eCogra are not empty bluffs from fraudulent players).

It is time eCogra, and other self regulatory bodies, got a grip on this issue of what constitutes "fraud", and set a clear standard so that players can know for certain what is allowed, and what is not - hiding behind discresionary terms is no longer useful, as casinos seem to be misusing them to counter the fall in revenue, rather than be fair to players.