Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[halfday]

I call 'em how I see 'em. If you didn't think they would pay out on a fair bet, I hope you didn't play there.

If you think it is okay to exploit, then okay, that's on you.

I want a fair shake, that's all I ask for. It pisses me off to see some people here acting like hyenas.

I could be wrong, I've said again and again, but I don't think so. These guys will make right. If you exploited them you might get nothing. Boo hoo.

Nitpicking crap, that's all I see. fer fuggs ache, if an exploiter misses the ka-ching! so what! Play on.

Your view is totally insane.

[lojo]

I can appreciate that.

[vinylweatherman]

FL have had this happen because they refused to act on a growing problem, rather hoping it would go away. There has NEVER been any reason why operators have to stick to the default settings of the new bonus system. There was a clear mathematical issue in allocating French Roulette to the 50% weighting, other casinos acted by changing the weightings to 25% on the tables, FL react by waiting for players to deposit at all 7 casinos before suddenly "discovering" they played to win, rather than to lose everything in an entertaining manner.
Simply stating, as they do, that if they just don't like "how you played sir", they can void all winnings if you win, but keep your losses if you lose, means the casino has an unfair advantage over players who like the idea of winning.
How far are they prepared to go, will they be forever making up new "undesirable playing styles" to void winnings? What about meeting the WR at 9c a spin on Thunderstruck? Despite being mathematically unlikely, these slots seem to either be good or bad, and doing this over 7 accounts will probably yield a profit. Any high variance slot over enough accounts with a bonus will give a positive expectation in the long term, although nothing like the 50/50 big bet, players could spin between $10 to $20 for about 50 spins or so, hoping for a bonus round. The likely outcome of a bonus round is 33xbet, and this would average out at $330 to $660, possibly much more if lucky. With bonus rounds on average every 150 spins, there would be a one third chance that one would hit in each of the 7 accounts, the others would bust out quickly and could be ditched. After a decent bonus round, the player would simply micro bet on another slot to clear the rest of the WR. Given enough attempts, assuming 100%+ bonus each time, the outcome would be positive until the casino defines slot only play as "bonus abuse".

FL could defend against all these methods by not allowing all 7 bonuses to be claimed as at present. Jackpot Factory have recently introduced a limit of two welcome bonuses per player.

If they were so keen just to "entertain", they would not be bothered if loads of players just used guest accounts for entertainment, without wanting to use real money. If you have ever played "for fun", you are forever bombarded with offers and interruptions to get you to play for real.

[Casinomeister]

So far I have 15 complaints - four fraudsters - but I'm triple checking on one of them. Waiting for an answer on that.

Two of the remaining have been resolved - the rest are pending.

Just for he record, some of the customer service comments are unacceptable - at least in my opinion. There is no such animal as "serious gamblers" or "we're not paying you because we don't like the WAY in which you played". Unless the casino has "serious gambler" defined in their terms and conditions (I haven't checked, but I'm assuming they don't), then this is pointless and irrelevant.

And if they did define this term, I would still have a problem with it.

I stand by my earlier comments about players that meet terms and conditions and wagering requirements; there is no room for subjective terms. Casinos are responsible to protect themselves from players they don't want.

It pains the hell out of me to remove Fortune Lounge from the "Accredited" section - we've had a relationship that goes back a number of years and there are some really good people working at FL. I don't like seeing this company getting drug through the mud either. But in the same breath, casinos listed on this site are expected to abide by their terms and conditions, and until this is cleared up I have no choice but to suspend their listing.

[gamerkip]

I have read half of this topic since it is very long. I have 6 FL accounts. 5 are blocked. In one account I have €201 Cash Balance! In the other account I have €315 Cash Balance! This is more then €500! Excluding my Bonus Balance! I signed up at the 6 accounts cause I founded this FL webpage: http://www.fortunelounge.com/B4UGOVT...g=VTNEU_Direct FL is complaining about bonus abusers. Improve your T&C and take down this webpage!

I have had a long email conversation with the FL group, using and quoting messages from this topic. It is long but very interseting. They keep falling back on this "We can do what we like term":

Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!
If somebody has comments or advise, don't be afraid to post replay's. I will use PAB as a last resort...




Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:


Hi Roberto
Thank you for contacting the Casinodesk.
The points in your email will be taken into consideration,
The trends identified in regards to Bonus Abuse have not been identified on one casino account or to one withdrawal,
Trends are identified by taking data, identified as a trend, across multiple accounts,
These trends identified were identified as having been contradictory to the terms of the casino referencing the Bonus Abuse in question,
Regretfully I am not able to divulge more detailed information as this is maintained by our Player Security Company,
I thank you for your understanding in this regards and should more information be made available, the casino will contact and notify you accordingly.

Please contact us again, should you have any further queries.

Kind regards
David
Casino Support I did not yet receive anything





Hello,

Before I start, I want to thank you personally for taking time to fully examen my whole email conversating.

A.2 The trends of bonus abusers differ and their patterns are determined by our Player Security Company. Bonus abusers would often change their patterns, to "throw" the casino's off track. A bonus abuser would thus be determined by the play and not the play-through period.
The Player Security Company is something the casino can always use as a fallback position. If somebody has made a big win, you can always claim that the Player Security Company marked the player as a "Bonus Abuser". Anyhow, when I started playing I accepted all the terms including this unclear term. Make a clear term or row of terms since this gives casino full power. Aldo I doubt what a court would say about this if it should come to a case.

A.3 In the event the company states in the offer, that it has the right to remove the offer or not offer the promotion to a certain player or person, then they would be able to offer this once, regardless if you visit any or all of their stores.

Yess, "not offer the promotion to a certain player or person" which means the person can not use the offer BEFORE he or she starts shopping. In the casino's case, which means the player can not use the bonus BEFORE he or she starts playing.

Now, you offer the promotion, get the money from the player, let him play, call him a bonus abuser and his winnings. If I read all the terms carefully, I conclude I do not get my deposit back also?!

A.4 The terms & conditions of the casino, followed by the policies of our Player Security Company determine which players are abusing us. By agreeing to the terms & conditions, which you have to agree to before opening any account at our group, you agree to what is stated in those terms.
I refer to my answer on A.2. Unfortunely I accepted This "we can do what we like term(s)"

I would like to ask you a question, "Has the casino and the Fortune Lounge Group, acted outside of it's rights?"
I don't know. I study rights, but this term the casino is constantly falling back on is a unclear one. I can not guess how a court would judge this. There are many examples in where a company acts in his rights but only by misleading a person. I feel this is happened with me and lots of others. It almost feels like the casino makes their biggest winnings by attracting players who use this strategy. Block them and keep there deposit.

Again, I thank you personally for taking time to fully examen my whole email conversating. I guess this is out of your power and up to the casino management, but if I do not get my deposit back I will use other channels and try hard to make this happen.

Kind Regards and Good day,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

Roberto, I have reviewed all the communication you have received previously and also the email you have just sent us. I am sure that by now you are well aware of the terms & Conditions of the casino and by just highlighting those conditions in this email, will not resolve the matter.

The approach I have decided to take, is to single out all questions you have highlighted in your email and respond in that manner. My job is here is resolve the issue between yourself and Fortune Lounge Group. At times, I would be required to reference the terms & conditions, but I will try my best to keep it minimal. Here we go...

Q.1 "You call this "bonus abuse". Firstly, their is no term describing a "bonus abuser"?"

A.1 Lets say you have a job, where every Friday afternoon there is Free Drinks after work for all employees. You decide to invite one of your friends to join you every Friday. A couple of weeks go by and nobody says anything and you decide, "why don't I invite another friend?" So for the next few weeks, your Company is unaware that you have 2 friends accompanying you and they soon find that the amount of alcohol they supply is not sufficient. They then decide to investigate the matter and find that you and both your friends are consuming all their drinks. The company decides to ban you from their drink on Fridays. The Company is offering this to it's employees and not to you and your friends. As they are offering this, they will have the right to exclude you, as what they had offered had been abused. In this example, there had been no definition of what would be considered abuse, yet looking at the story as a whole, this had been obvious abuse. What I am trying to get across, is that there does not need to be a definition of abuse and this is at the discretion of the provider which in the example is the company and in this instance is the casino.

Q.2 "Secondly, if I would be this "bonus abuser" I would try to meet the play through requirements right away?"

A.2 The trends of bonus abusers differ and their patterns are determined by our Player Security Company. Bonus abusers would often change their patterns, to "throw" the casino's off track. A bonus abuser would thus be determined by the play and not the play-through period.

Q.3 "If one company of supermarkets would offer €50 free of shopping on your first visit. Everybody would be visiting different shops of the same company in the area. If the store doesn't like that is has to make a rule which exclude this shopping behavior. Just like your casino has to make a term like I said before about excluding this behavior."

A.3 In the event the company states in the offer, that it has the right to remove the offer or not offer the promotion to a certain player or person, then they would be able to offer this once, regardless if you visit any or all of their stores.

This is indicated in the Terms & Conditions as stated below:

1.3. Refusal to Register, Deregistration, Exclusion & Suspension


1.3.1. We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time and for any reason whatsoever.

1.3.2. You acknowledge hereby that the Casino is not obliged to give you prior notice of its decision to refuse, deregister or exclude or suspend you, nor to furnish you with any reasons for such decision.

Q.4. "Make a term which only allows a person to sign up a max 2 casino's of the fortune lounge group or like I said before, you can make a term that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus?"

A.4 The terms & conditions of the casino, followed by the policies of our Player Security Company determine which players are abusing us. By agreeing to the terms & conditions, which you have to agree to before opening any account at our group, you agree to what is stated in those terms.

Roberto, I am confident that the casino has acted well within it's rights as stated in the Terms & Conditions. You have requested a reason as to why you were considered a bonus abuser and I have answered that as best I could. I would like to ask you a question, "Has the casino and the Fortune Lounge Group, acted outside of it's rights?"

Should you have any further queries in future, no matter how big or how small, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards
Jade
Casino Desk Support





Hello,

The fastest response I got so-far. Appreciate my thanks!

Yess, dubbeling was my tactic. You are correct, after that I did not only played roulette. I made small beds, but I played 6-10 different games of blackjack/roulette with only a few beds. You call this "bonus abuse". Firstly, their is no term describing a "bonus abuser". Secondly, if I would be this "bonus abuser" I would try to meet the playtrhough requirements right away. Please notice that I had I big win, played only a few games with small beds and did not play at my account for like a hole week! It seems to me a "bonus abuser" would try to play through the playthrough requirements right away. I did not do that!

And the only reason I played this dubbeling tactic at multiple account is because off this fortune lounges webpage I found: http://www.fortunelounge.com/B4UGOVT...g=VTNEU_Direct

If one company of supermarkets would offer €50 free of shopping on your first visit. Everybody would be visiting different shops of the same company in the area. If the store doesn't like that is has to make a rule which exclude this shopping behaviour. Just like your casino has to make a term like I said before about excluding this behaviour.

Make a term which only allows a person to sign up a max 2 casino's of the fortune lounge group or like I said before, you can make a term that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus.


I am waiting for a response,

Kind Regards,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.

I was checking in the system and I have to tell you how the promo abuse works. We have review in all of yours Casinos accounts, due to method you have used to play. Like you know, all the Casinos belong to Fortune Lounge.
The way you were betting plus the short time your accounts were opened is considered for our Security department like Promo Abuse.

In your specific case, you were making a one big bet in Baccarat, and after that you were betting $1(hundreds) in the Roulette to match the wagering requirements. Plus that you were making the minimum purchase ($50) to get the maximum bonus. I hope this information help you to know why the security department have locked your account. (I made a total of ten, max 20 (not hundreds like they say!!) small bets on different roulettes, cause I wanted to play in the weekend cause of school and work)
It is just too co-incidental that we were abused in EXACTLY the same way by over 4000 players.

Your account has been closed for a Manager decision with our Security department and is going to remain in the same way.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further queries.
Thank you for playing with Fortune Lounge.

Kind regards
Nico
Casino Support





Hi Sean,

Thanks for answering my email. But you still did not give me a single term I did not follow. I asked for this specifically. You did not give me a rock solid term which describes a "bonus abuser". Instead of calling me a bonus abuser, I call the casino a "player abuser". If a players loses money you keep it of course, if a player has a nice win you block him. Well done, this is your american dream right?!

Anyhow I will take further steps through different channels, about this fraud!
First by contacting the casinomeister website!
Secondly by grouping a large group of people together and make a case of this fraud! Then sue the casino thinking you can do all this without consequences.


I will cancel my actions if the casino deposits my winnings and deposit. If not, you will hear from me again!

Have a nice day and send my personal regards including my actions to your boss,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately the decision of the casino security company is final and their decision will not change; the account will remain locked and any winnings and bonuses forfeited.

To read through the terms and conditions please click on the link below:
http://www.capitalcasino.com/general...btag=CC_Direct

1.4. Consequences of Deregistration, Exclusion or Suspension


1.4.1. If we deregister or exclude or suspend you from the Casino we shall have the right to:

1.4.1.1. withhold payment to you of any contested funds whether such contested funds are deposits, refunds, bonuses, free monies, casino credits, payouts or the like; and/or

1.4.1.2. exclude you from all or any other Casinos and/or Poker Rooms in the group of Casinos of which the Casino is a member or affiliate; and/or

1.4.1.3. solely determine what criteria you shall have to meet in order to establish a New Account at the Casino; and/or

1.4.1.4 in the case of fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct by you or failure by you to pay any sums due to us:


1.4.1.4.1 furnish any relevant information about you to an intra-group database recording such mischief and, if necessary, hand over your account details to a collections agency for the recovery of any sums that you owe us. You hereby irrevocably authorize us to do so in our absolute discretion, and/or

1.4.1.4.2 have forfeited to us any contested funds that may be derived by you from fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct.

1.4.2. If you are deemed to be abusing Casino promotions and bonuses in any way, the casino reserves the right to withhold any bonus amounts and winnings, and suspend your casino account.

If there is anything else I can assist you with, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,
Sean
Casino Desk





Hello again,

I thank you for your quick response.

"Roberto we have reviewed your Capital Casino account and see that you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up bonus."
This is legal! I did not break a single term!

"Therefore there is no chance for the casino to win back its bonus allocated or the purchase amount from the player."
This is not my problem! I did not break a single term!

"There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cash in the bonus money."
You're making a conclusion for the witness the judge will say in court! I did not break a single term!

"Due to the way that you have wagered and the style in which you have wagered, we consider this Promo Abuse."
Give me a single term I did not follow, give me a URL which defines a "Promo Abuse". There is no term which says players are not allowed to play a specific style, if there is, show me. I did not break a single term!

"We have advised you of what has happened as well as what we are going to be doing with your funds. We will not be able to pay your winnings to you as this is against the Terms that your account has been locked out for."
Nobody has advised me about my money! Again, I did not break a single term!

The casino has told me why it has locked my account. Still, I did NOTHING wrong. Like I said before:
I just played smart, be dubbeling up once and wanting to play through the playthrough requirements after a successful hit! This is not called "Promotional misuse" like you are saying. This is playing by YOUR term & conditions! If you are concerned about people wagering entire bonus & deposit on a low risk game like blackjack/baccarat etc change the terms & conditions to exclude this!
It should not take too much intelligence to work out a system to prevent this while still having a bonus that gives honest players a chance to play the games.
For example put a clause in that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus.

Concluding, again kindly ask you to unlock my account or to deposit my original winnings and deposit to my neteller account.

Please note that I do not consider this a final decision and there will be further consideration made on my account, true me. Via email, phone and many many websites like www.casinomeister.com

Kind Regards,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting the Casino Desk.

Roberto we have reviewed your Capital Casino account and see that you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up bonus. well, duhh!

Therefore there is no chance for the casino to win back its bonus allocated or the purchase amount from the player. Not my problem...don't like it, don't offer it!! So, people are not allowed to win anything?! Strange! Very strange!!
There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cash in the bonus money.
Due to the way that you have wagered and the style in which you have wagered, we consider this Promo Abuse. We have advised you of what has happened as well as what we are going to be doing with your funds. We will not be able to pay your winnings to you as this is against the Terms that your account has been locked out for.

Please note that we do consider this a final decision and there will be no further consideration made on your account.

Please contact us again, should you have any further queries.

I thank you for your time and patience in this regard.

Kind regards

Bryan

Casino Desk





Hello,

Thank you for answering my email. It isn't that difficult, is it?!

"Your account has been locked because of the beach in the terms and conditions of the casino and of the bonuses."
Tell me specifically which term did I not follow. The term you are referring me to is a "we can do whatever we like term". I study international law so I know what I am talking about. Right now you are stealing money!!

"There are certain guidelines for using the sign up bonus which is available on the website."
Give me the specific guidelines! Tell me specifically what I did wrong!

"Failing to adhere to the bonus promotion rules will have the account locked."
I did not fail anything. The casino just wasn't smart enough by making watertight terms & conditions. So again, I want my account to be unlocked or I want my deposit and winnings cashed-out!

If you have any questions about my email don’t bother to ask me to clear them up for you, since it is a hard subject

Good day,
Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.

Your account has been locked because of the beach in the terms and conditions of the casino and of the bonuses.

There are certain guidelines for using the sign up bonus which is available on the website.
Failing to adhere to the bonus promotion rules will have the account locked.

Because the account was investigated by our Player Security Company and found guilty of breaching the above mentioned policy your account has been locked.
Should you have any further queries in future, no matter how big or how small, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards
Cyril
Casinodesk Support

[Gaahl]

Do you guys remember the Iraqi Minister of Information (Comical Ali) during the invasion of Iraq 2002?....

[skystick]

Yesterday i also received the FAMOUS e-mail saying about the wagering in black and red and BLAH BLAH BLAH locked account BLAH BLAH BLAH promotional misuse BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Anyway i don't wanna refer my problem.

After many e-mails and replies they said that they will no longer reply(what a surprise!)

That really made me angry and i said to them that I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT.
WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE TO DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE?

I CALL ALL THE PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF THAT CASINO GROUP TO STAND UP TO THOSE WISEGUYS!

Do you know how much money they made with that "action"?They don't even think of returning the initial deposit.They just "SIMPLY" lock your account.

They really need to send them a bunch of lawyers to shake them in court.This is the only way to get OUR money back.

These people must work in the diplomatic force cause they don't listen to you whatever you tell them,they learn by heart a certain text and shoot us with that.

The casino representative split from this forum!

As you understand i really blew my top and i can arrange a group of lawyers to represent many of us.

STEALING IS A CRIME.JOIN FORCES AND GO TO WAR

Thank you friends for listening.I think i speak for the most

[gamerkip]

An update - READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP AGAIN:


Hello again,

I want you to read the message of BruceW47
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...towers-22.html

I quoted it for you:

Click the link above and you can read the message og BruceW47

Looks like I'm not alone.
I will not lower myself to a level of shouting people out or calling names since it is obvious
the FL group is full of nothing!

I kindly ask, since I always keep my mathers, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back or I will undertake action!

Goodday,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

Your accounts will not be unlocked and no funds are due to you.

The exact reasoning was clearly explained to you.


This matter is now closed. (They are starting to talk rude while they are the ones being rude!)

Kind Regards
Justin
Casino Desk Support





Hello,

It is now 5 days ago and I still didn't hear from the FL group. I didn't expect it either!

By now I posted this whole email conversation on www.casinomeister.com
You can find it here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...towers-23.html


I would like you to read the message of the Forum Meister, named casinomeister:

It pains the hell out of me to remove Fortune Lounge from the "Accredited" section - we've had a relationship that goes back a number of years and there are some really good people working at FL. I don't like seeing this company getting drug through the mud either. But in the same breath, casinos listed on this site are expected to abide by their terms and conditions, and until this is cleared up I have no choice but to suspend their listing.


I still want my accounts to be unlocked or my winnings and my deposit to be cashed out cause there is nothing forbidden about my way of playing except you saying: "we're blocking you because we don't like the WAY in which you played".

Nice Regards,

Roberto

[gamerkip]

Yesterday i also received the FAMOUS e-mail saying about the wagering in black and red and BLAH BLAH BLAH locked account BLAH BLAH BLAH promotional misuse BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Anyway i don't wanna refer my problem.

After many e-mails and replies they said that they will no longer reply(what a surprise!)

That really made me angry and i said to them that I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT.
WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE TO DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE?

I CALL ALL THE PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF THAT CASINO GROUP TO STAND UP TO THOSE WISEGUYS!

Do you know how much money they made with that "action"?They don't even think of returning the initial deposit.They just "SIMPLY" lock your account.

They really need to send them a bunch of lawyers to shake them in court.This is the only way to get OUR money back.

These people must work in the diplomatic force cause they don't listen to you whatever you tell them,they learn by heart a certain text and shoot us with that.

The casino representative split from this forum!

As you understand i really blew my top and i can arrange a group of lawyers to represent many of us.

STEALING IS A CRIME.JOIN FORCES AND GO TO WAR

Thank you friends for listening.I think i speak for the most

Hi, I am also a victim of them! If you really want to build a case against those m*therf*#kers you will have to group a lot of people.

- Starting with making a website where people can register.
- Opening a new bank account on a bank of your choice.
- Let people who registered make deposits on your bank account even if they do'n't know you. With enough money we can start a case all together.

I haven't done PAB yet, but if PAB doesn't work out I will most certainly back you up if you really want to sue them!

Cheers Roberto!

[lojo]

Why haven't you PAB yet, Roberto? It is part of the process here for resolving complaints.