Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[jerrylee]

How is a player a cheater if they didn't break the T&C, and finished the WR before requesting a cashout?

In the eyes of a casino, any player that was able to cash out must have used some "cheating system" to get those results right? Especially if a bonus is involved. You know that right winbig?

[WLVRYN]

I am very happy to read this. You got burned cbe2869 and every bonus abuser's frivilous PAB should be rejected immediately.

You, sir, are a giant smelly douchebag.

(CM - Send me to the penalty box if you have to, but that comment above is just ridiculous.)

How can you be happy that a casino enacts the "we can do whatever we want clause"? And also confiscates poker winnings that have absolutely nothing to do with the casino? There are T&C's written on a site for a reason. If you follow them, you should be fine. According to the T&C's, all games are allowed (just with different WR's) and there are no maximum bet amounts other than the table limits. Other MG groups have set maximum bet amounts as the amount of your deposit to curb this strategy. There's no reason that FL couldnt do the same. Its a very slippery slope to have casinos pull crap like this.

Message to CM - Returning deposits is not enough. If you won under the T&C's using a bonus, then you won and should be paid. If they end up not paying full amounts owed, and you dont rogue these guys for this, then I'll be very disappointed in you and this site. This is much worse than any casino slow paying.

[cbe2869]

I don't call locking accounts for bonus abuse rogue behavior. Many legit groups do that to expose cheaters for who they really are.

I shouldn't even diginfy this moronic post with a response. Casinos should not offer a bonus if they do not want a player to accept it. If a player does and fulfills the wager requirements set by the casino and is there is nothing else done improper like multiple accounts or id/funding fraud then there is no cheating on the part of the player. Casinos could easily fix this by rewarding their existing players and not new ones. The only cheaters here are Fortune Lounge. If you bet your money and lose they keep it. If you bet your money and win then you have commited bonus abuse and they keep it. Yes, this is an outstanding way to treat their players.

[cbe2869]

I have filed a complaint with Ecogra. Is there any point to complaining to the Kahnawake Gaming commission?

[jerrylee]

How can you be happy that a casino enacts the "we can do whatever we want clause"? And also confiscates poker winnings that have absolutely nothing to do with the casino?

Actually, the way casinos work is like this. When players' accounts are locked, all are locked at the same time. It's an all or nothing deal.
If the player's suspected of bonus abuse and their casino account is locked, does it make sense to let this player...uh cheater..play on any other casino in the same group..casino or poker room? So it makes sense to lock all accounts at once.
And the T&C clause you refer to, players are supposed to read and agree to it prior to sign up. So if the account is locked and winnings forfeited when cheating takes place..whether that's credit card fraud, bonus abuse, multiple accounts or whatever...then again, the onus is on the casino? What would you do in their position? Obviously protect your assests and make sure you employ a mighty risk management team to snuff out the fraudsters. Hey sometimes you have to go on a hunch. Follow playing patterns, use indicators as the FL rep said here.

I am still not convinced some of the players here are on the up and up.

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

I know this is not a popular angle here at CM's.

i think he does an excellent job trying to mitigate .... what are sometimes nearly impossible situations.

the one thing I've learned in my years on the net is you get what you ask for.

I have never advertised for bonus chasers .. in fact in the past .. and the Prof will back this up as he and Cappy just recently were ribbing me about running ads that stated clearly .. there is nothing here for bonus seekers.

So I have little sympathy for casinos running bonus offers. They set themselves up for just such controversy .... attract players seeking to beat the bonus situation .. and then want to cry when it happens.

I'm surely not saying they don't have legit reasons for this .... but my point is ... don't make bonus offers .... instead concentrate on player service and fast payouts without hassle to those who come in seeking entertainment via gambling with their own money .... and there's never reason to have these situations in the first place.

but rather than seek to be a quality establishment where they can build a rep that NEVER has such situations. .... rediculous playthru requirements (etc) that literally in many cases take a rocket scientist to figure out .... as simple ...... you bet your money .... you win the bet .. . you get paid the amount won ..... in timely fashion ....and there's never reason for this crap and IF there ever comes a time you didn't get paid, locked out etc .... there's only one place to blame .. the casino.

You laid down the money .... if you won.... you get paid. none of this figuring out whether they are "advantage players, bonus chasers .... etc".

Seriously .. if you've got to be worried about the bonus stuff ... maybe you shouldn't be gambling in the first place. It is an entertainment ...... where the games are set up to beat you more than not ....... so suck it up and take it like a man or don't gamble.

There are plenty of free places to gamble for fun or somtimes prizes.

You play to pay ...... you deserve to be paid when winning. You enter into some kind of situation that is made to make the deal look sweeter ..... and then when the small print in the deal comes back to bite you in the ass .... people act surprised.

well guess what? its made to set you up in a situation where you're very, very unlikely to meet the requirements to ever actually cash out.

Not saying that is the case with FL. but truth is ... that's the goal for most casinos when they offer these deals that look so good upfront ..... because they know you'll never meet the playthru requirements ....... win the fight with the man-eating alligator ..... to ever be in a position to actually have the money rightfully owed to you.

Most have T&Cs that basically say their word is the end all... if they so choose to fall back on that term.

Wake up and realize the saying you don't get something for nothing is as true today as it ever was.

I leave this noting that what I've written is not the case in every scenario. Just food for thought that any logical person can take into consideration and realize this is likely the case.

Frankly I don't know how CM can stand to deal with this year in and year out .. when even he admits ..... he doesn't do the bonus thing. A wise man for certain.


well I came over to check the situation out when I heard the rumors of the basis of this thread. and probably over stepped .. and certainly over simplified my post. but the core of what I'm saying is not without merit.

I hope all can appreciate I posted this as a perspective .... and not as an accusation toward any player or casino in particular.

thanks for allowing my say.

in closing . . my point is that it is unlikely any account would be closed if it had always denied any kind of bonus offer.

[lojo]

It might get lost in the fray but I will probably respond to your earlier response tomorrow, JerryLee.
In toto you have good insights, but you will get my ear only if you quit calling people cheaters before the facts are in. Casinos are not the enemy and players are not the enemy. Some casinos suck and some players suck. I've already given my opinion of a certain 'class' of player. You seem to be in a class by yourself here and, at least with me, your posts would be more meaningful if they weren't so adverse and personal sometimes. Please use your knowledge and experience to benefit all of us, as you often do.

[casinocide]

I am very happy to read this. You got burned cbe2869 and every bonus abuser's frivilous PAB should be rejected immediately.

Hey Jerry all I do is abuse the s*** out of promotions all day long. Not only that, I'm getting pretty efficient at it. What kind of fraud/cheating does that make me guilty of? Just curious.

The only thing that sucks for you and the casinos is that serial promotions abusers like me who have been at it a while almost never have denied cash outs. In fact there's not a thing you could ever do to stop players like me other than go out of business or stop offering bonuses, but then who the heck would want to play online. I mean no one's gonna deposit money with a one room web operator run out of some wobbly third world poverty center like Costa Rica unless they have some serious enticement.

O no es que usted mismo es una "puta de bonos" diciendo tales necidades?

[Casinomeister]

No more personal jabs, okay?

[Vesuvio]

I'm not above utilizing a bonus, and i do use them for various reasons. But if I had to rely on 'manipulating' the house edge to win over time, I would stop playing.

There's no way of winning long-term without bonuses. It's your personal choice if you only want to use bonuses when they're low-risk, but I hope you can accept others might feel differently.

That aside, I guess my point is that bonuses are offered in the spirit of fair play; to attract a beginner and to introduce a casino to the seasoned player. That's not so hard to fathom.

What's fair play got to do with anything? Bonuses are offered to attract deposits - casinos know that with the usual wagering requirements any money deposited will be lost. In fact even without a bonus almost all money deposited will be lost.

Fortune Lounge make a point of bonus hunters having no intention to return to the casino (though of course they would if there was anything offered to make it worth their while!), but I'm sure the most common behaviour of a "bona fide" player is to deposit, lose, get angry and never return to that paticular casino. Strangely FL don't mind these players, whatever their intentions.

Technically They must adhere to the terms to be considered a fair casino (group) but for those players who do not play by the spirit of the offer, there is the caveat.

Technically you shouldn't kill people Again, "spirit" of the offer!?

Boo hoo. Suck it up. It's in the terms. You read them.

Actually I can't even find any "bonus abuse" term in the Fortune Lounge terms. All Royal Vegas seem to have, for example, is the following:

"We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time and for any reason whatsoever." Followed by something saying they can take deposits, if they feel like it. If you're going to take such terms seriously, rather than relying on a casino group being more or less reputable, you wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Is that your recommendation?

A rogue casino would act like a rogue casino. It looks to me, with what I can see here, that these guys just did a knee jerk thing and they're in damage control mode right now.

Yep, rogue is as rogue does. There's no knee jerk reaction - FL aren't a newly-opened operation with good intentions getting burnt. They know how the business works and they know exactly what they're doing.

And now some personal opinion for people who take full advantage of every bonus offered by reputable casinos and don't patronize the establishments that offered them. Quit ruining it for the rest of us, huh? Thanks.

How does it ruin anything for you? You're free to gamble and lose without bonuses to your heart's content - no casino's going to stop you.