Microgaming VP doubling rigged

[TheBloke]

The reasons for my frustration, and for my efforts to exonerate MG are:
a) It is a witch hunt with very little merit. You're hurt only by the fact that they lied to you, not by the lie itself, and there was no malicousness intended on their part.
b) The continuing discussion is just reinforcing the irrational fears of many - countless people will find this thread, see the title, see people talking about 'predetermination' and the control of wins/losses, and assume that MG is a rigged provider. Most of these people will never sign up and post here so we'll never know what the majority are thinking. I'm sure this will feature high on Google ratings soon enough.
c) The spread of this fear is exactly what the US legislators want to aid them destroy the online gambling industry. By turning this non-issue into a big problem, we are helping them and hurting ourselves.

Believe me, if this was an actual case of rigging I would be vocal in denouncing it. But it's not, and I felt it was necessary to repeatedly point that fact out so that maybe the majority would understand what is actually happening.

It was a completely pointless, braindead decision for MG to make. I don't believe it was laziness - it would be just as easy to code it correctly - I imagine they did it to make it faster, to give it an edge over their competitors. This thread is proof of why that was a really, really stupid thing for them to do. Gamblers are suspicious and superstitious and MG should never have cut this corner.

But they did, and the most dangerous thing for us to do now is to make a huge fuss about it, and further spread the notion that all online gambling is suspicious and untrustworthy. I'm sure MG will now be fully aware of this cock-up and hopefully it has taught them a lesson - so you have achieved that. But I hope you understand why I think it important to ensure that people don't take this out of context or blow it into a major issue - all that can be achieved by that is to help anti-gambling legislation. You have little to gain and a lot to lose.

[kengam]

Why would Bryan lock the thread about English Harbour which dealt with a buggy double up that was cheating players?


Utterly rediculous. I guess locking the thread makes it go away. It was because of that thread that he slightly rogued them. Why lock such an important thread?

[The Watchdog]

When you play the classic Millionaires Club slot and you get to the final wheel do you really believe that you have a one in ten chance of winning the jackpot as you would if this was a real physical wheel?

Mitch

I have never played at a Crypto Casino... I am not a Slots fan and even so, I am concerned why that jack pot has not being hit in so much time.

Never the less, that is not the issue here...

Do you have like 51% stock in MG by any chance??

I mean no harm to them, but damn, I just can´t stop thinking how would I feel by being a VP player at MG...Even much more if like to double up

[The Watchdog]

I remember a while ago somebody posted in this forum some VP screens with up to 9-10 winning doubles in a row off of a single win. I don't remember exactly if it was RTG or Playtech but it was definately not MG. So could it be MG designed it's VP double feature in such way just to prevent this from happenning? What if they have some counter that allows only 4-5 max. Then it makes a huge difference and gives you an explanation why they implemented such shortcut. Of course I don't have any proof. It just a speculation on my part but on another hand noone can prove that this theory can't be true.

That will be a perfect explanation why several MG casinos allow Video poker as a valid game and why some major Playtech Casinos have it as an invalid game for WR on their bonuses

[The Watchdog]

The reasons for my frustration, and for my efforts to exonerate MG are:
a) It is a witch hunt with very little merit. You're hurt only by the fact that they lied to you, not by the lie itself, and there was no malicousness intended on their part.
b) The continuing discussion is just reinforcing the irrational fears of many - countless people will find this thread, see the title, see people talking about 'predetermination' and the control of wins/losses, and assume that MG is a rigged provider. Most of these people will never sign up and post here so we'll never know what the majority are thinking. I'm sure this will feature high on Google ratings soon enough.
c) The spread of this fear is exactly what the US legislators want to aid them destroy the online gambling industry. By turning this non-issue into a big problem, we are helping them and hurting ourselves.

Believe me, if this was an actual case of rigging I would be vocal in denouncing it. But it's not, and I felt it was necessary to repeatedly point that fact out so that maybe the majority would understand what is actually happening.

It was a completely pointless, braindead decision for MG to make. I don't believe it was laziness - it would be just as easy to code it correctly - I imagine they did it to make it faster, to give it an edge over their competitors. This thread is proof of why that was a really, really stupid thing for them to do. Gamblers are suspicious and superstitious and MG should never have cut this corner.

But they did, and the most dangerous thing for us to do now is to make a huge fuss about it, and further spread the notion that all online gambling is suspicious and untrustworthy. I'm sure MG will now be fully aware of this cock-up and hopefully it has taught them a lesson - so you have achieved that. But I hope you understand why I think it important to ensure that people don't take this out of context or blow it into a major issue - all that can be achieved by that is to help anti-gambling legislation. You have little to gain and a lot to lose.

I honestly respect your opinion and I am more than against banning online gambling...

However your point of view I don´t share. Exactly stuff like this are the things that must change on online gambling in order for it to be a respected, trust worthy and decent business.

A lot of stuff must be changed like decent customer service, loyal and fast payments, etc. We can number thousands of things that can be changed, however your policy of keeping it down makes me sick.

I agree that is not rigged, but is not honest.

If people are affraid of things like this, they must be told. The online gambler should be educated on how to spot a honest business, know where and who to do business with and even more be sure that they are dealing with companies that are interested in providing the best service.

There are thousands of people out there who live from this industry and thousands like me who respect it and want nothing more than the best for it.
I don´t think this should be taken in the wrong way for people to fear online gambling, but regardless what harm this issue can cause, WHAT THE HELL IS A MAJOR ONLINE GAMBLING SOFTWARE PROVIDER LETTING SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN??

If they suffer the consecuences of their mistakes.. good. As I have always thought: on the online gambling industry rules of nature apply. The strongest, wisest and most intelligent prevail... the others are left behind.

You have a good point and good intention, however silence is not the answer.
We all humans make mistakes and errors, but we can also solve them... simple as that

[rreevy]

I have noted something similar in Blackjack. When the player hits "stand", the balance updates before the dealer has drawn the cards. Clearly this is another short cut, but in this case the player has no further influence in the outcome.

It may not be an intentional short-cut - I used to do a bit of programming, and sometimes I recall that later tasks would be completed before earlier ones, if for example the earlier ones involved displaying a lot of graphics. However, I'd be surprised if an advanced programmer couldn't find some way round this.

You're right that in the blackjack case the player has no further influence in the outcome, so it doesn't matter imo. The issue I have with the VP is that the player doesn't have any further influence in the outcome either, however the software makes it look as if they do.

[Vesuvio]

The reasons for my frustration, and for my efforts to exonerate MG are:
a) It is a witch hunt with very little merit. You're hurt only by the fact that they lied to you, not by the lie itself, and there was no malicousness intended on their part.

I wouldn't say it's a witch hunt - they've been caught actually doing something they shouldn't be and deceiving players about it. I also don't think people are going overboard - no-one's called for Microgaming to be rogued.

But they did, and the most dangerous thing for us to do now is to make a huge fuss about it, and further spread the notion that all online gambling is suspicious and untrustworthy.

I agree with your other points, but personally I think it's a good thing if people's natural suspicions about on-line gambling are reinforced. People shouldn't take anything on trust (there's no regulation and companies can do anything they think they'll get away with), and if this discourages a few from gambling on-line that's a good thing. I know that's not exactly the party line on this site, and I'd be financially worse off if casinos closed, but not much comes from this industry except people losing money they could better use on something else.

[rreevy]

I remember a while ago somebody posted in this forum some VP screens with up to 9-10 winning doubles in a row off of a single win. I don't remember exactly if it was RTG or Playtech but it was definately not MG. So could it be MG designed it's VP double feature in such way just to prevent this from happenning? What if they have some counter that allows only 4-5 max. Then it makes a huge difference and gives you an explanation why they implemented such shortcut. Of course I don't have any proof. It just a speculation on my part but on another hand noone can prove that this theory can't be true.

Couldn't it be disproven by someone winning 6 or more doubles in a row at an MG casino?

[vinylweatherman]

I do not buy a need to make the software faster as an excuse for MG. The saving is small, and they have done so very much to slow their software to the point of not responding over the last two years of monthly updates that I would rather have a proper VP double that takes an extra few milliseconds.
I also dislike the manner in which MG simply do not appear to give the proverbial "flying Rat's ass" about player issues with software bugs that turn up each time an upgrade is done. They will not even reply to direct communications from players, and casino CS do not have the ability to get any more than the standard "switch off/configure your firewall/virus software" out of MG.
If MG upgrade the casino, and the software throws a wobbly, I don't start blaming my PC if I have not changed anything at my end.
Last year, it took significant numbers of players unable to log into MG at all before they began to deal with the problem, and then discovered the problem was fixable at their end.

If MG were willing to communicate with players and allay our fears, these issues would not be so important, their "code of silence" is what makes the more suspicious of us think they have something to hide.

I have already noticed that other softwares can effectively "cheat" by allowing operators to lower the payouts without the fact being obvious to players, as well as the obvious cases of RTG and Crypto operators increasing the house edge on some VP games by making subtle changes to the paytables, and either not mentioning the change, or billing it as an "improvement". Further, we have cases of VP games recycling discards when that is not expected. I didn't even consider this an important issue until I was told that it can make a 3% difference to the house edge!!

[nafanny29]

I dont think MG could use an excuse that it makes the software faster, because it has to generate the dealer card, your card and 3 other random (possibly) cards to display anyway.


And I would also like to know what other games/features have this "programming shortcut" which deviates from MG's published rules of the game and how it operates.