Microgaming VP doubling rigged

[The Watchdog]

Is not that MG is making a casino software that cheats...

Only that if you want to provide a good product for you customer... this game is just awful.

It seems that the programmers were so lazy to make an efficient game, that they decided to leave everything on the double button...

What they said probably was: Baaah , why are we going to waste time writtiing tons of code for the double feature.. .lets just make it random from the first moment they click and thats it. Programming 4 cards?? come on.. too much work... lets have a cigarrete and chill..

That´s what I believe could have happened when they created Video Poker.. reason why it will be interesting to see how other Video Pokers from other softwares are programmed...

[rreevy]

I have to agree with Mitch. It makes no difference, at least in the long run. In the short run it's as likely to help you as it is to hurt you.

That said, I am a little annoyed. Suppose the dealer's card is a King, and I pick a lower card. Then one of the other cards turns out to be an Ace, and I'm left kicking myself that I didn't pick that card. If I'd never have got the Ace anyway, then I'm beating myself up for nothing. I'm sorry, but if only for that reason it makes a difference to me.

For the record, I don't double up or even play VP very often. I have had experiences like the above, but it may not have been exactly like that, nor was it necessarily at a Microgaming casino.

[Vesuvio]

My point is that in this instance of software design there is no difference whatsoever to the player.

You're confusing two things here. It's true it makes no difference to the expected return, but it'll completely transform the average player's perception of the game. Perhaps the perception shouldn't matter, but then no-one but a bonus hunter would gamble at an on-line casino if the perception was taken away.

However if you genuinely believe that MG have designed the software to operate in a fashion that somehow disadvantages the player then you should not play at MG casinos.

I don't think they're disadvantaging the player, but this is a common fallacy. Yep, if there's no bonus you'd be mad to play on casino software you didn't trust, but with bonuses it's worth playing anywhere as long as you've got a big enough edge to cover the software's quirks. Why else would anyone play at Chartwell casinos?

[The Watchdog]

You're confusing two things here. It's true it makes no difference to the expected return, but it'll completely transform the average player's perception of the game. Perhaps the perception shouldn't matter, but then no-one but a bonus hunter would gamble at an on-line casino if the perception was taken away.

Exactly!!!!

[winbig]

There must be a lot of masochists in the world!

For all those who think MG have got an ulterior motive for designing their software like this, why are you playing at internet casinos?

If you genuinely believe that a huge operation like MG would deliberately cheat its players you would be an idiot to ever gamble online.

Software designers like to have elegant and quick solutions to problems.

This design is one such.

I repeat again it makes absolutely no difference to the player if a card is chosen randomly by the software or whether it randomly chooses 4 cards and the player makes another random selection from these 4. The only difference is that the software is slower and more complicated for the latter example. Because both selections are completely random there is no question of not being able to have huge winning (or losing! ) runs of 10 or more.

If anyone wants to dispute that obvious fact please supply the mathematical justification for the opinion.

If no one supplies such mathematical proof (and they wont!) or proof that they have psychic powers that enable them to see which one of the 4 cards they should choose, then players must believe that MG are cheating in some way. If so see the first 3 paragraphs!

Mitch

I think we're on two different pages here. Nobody that I know of is trying to prove it's rigged.

[mitch]

I think we're on two different pages here. Nobody that I know of is trying to prove it's rigged.

So what's the point of this thread? (have you seen the title!)

If it's to emphasise that internet play is not the same as real cards, what's the point, everybody knows that?

Designing the software to produce 4 cards is just an illusion, it's all down to ones and zeros anyway.

If the thread is to show that, presenting the game this way disadvantages the player in some way, well, it's just not correct I am afraid.

Mitch

[The Watchdog]

So what's the point of this thread? (have you seen the title!)

If it's to emphasise that internet play is not the same as real cards, what's the point, everybody knows that?

Designing the software to produce 4 cards is just an illusion, it's all down to ones and zeros anyway.

If the thread is to show that, presenting the game this way disadvantages the player in some way, well, it's just not correct I am afraid.

Mitch

Damn.. So Black Jack, Craps, Roulette is all down to ones and zeros uh?

Having a deck of cards deal 1 face up and four facing down I am sure is not the most complicated algorithm on earth...

The point is customers' satisfaction. You are under the illusion that you have a chance of luck by picking a card to beat another, but is totally fixed at the moment you hit on the double option... why waste the customer´s time and just after hitting double upgrade the balance and go to the next hand...

If you are such a programming pro.. why those pros at MG didn´t check for their mistake before having a valued customer noticing before starting this thread.?

[winbig]

The point is customers' satisfaction. You are under the illusion that you have a chance of luck by picking a card to beat another, but is totally fixed at the moment you hit on the double option... why waste the customer´s time and just after hitting double upgrade the balance and go to the next hand...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Could you see B&M casinos doing this? They might as well get rid of their slots/VP machines, etc. They could just go up to the cashier and press a button which will tell them what they owe or what they win. Would save alot of time! (Which is what MG was trying to do, but got busted)

[Mousey]

The dealer has one card. I am dealt 4 cards. That implies a choice, one card of four. If I am not making a choice, 1 out of 4, then deal me only the one card that represents my win or loss (which was already decided when I hit the 'double up' button). It's the smoke and mirrors that bothers me.

[The Watchdog]

But I am pretty sure Video Poker on other softwares work different than in Microgaming... at least on Playtech.

I am very positive that the double feature in Playtech gives you the option of actually getting lucky when picking a card... Reason why so many people have gotten amazing hands on Playtech.

My prediction:

Playtech: You are actually choosing among 4 different cards when you double

Microgaming: What we´ve been talking about... Your destiny is set once you hit double...

Would like to hear some opinions of people who have played at Crypto