Microgaming VP doubling rigged

[nafanny29]

Originally Posted by BBKPoker

'Thank you for your e-mail.

We use a random number generator. Please click on the link below for
further information.

http://www.32red.com/banking/pwc.php

Have a good night.

Kind regards,

Emma
Player Support Shift Leader
32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker
Casinomeister Best Casino 2003, 2004 & 2005 "

Which reassures me somewhat as 32red is quite reputable.

Oh well thats ok then, pwc checks everything with a fine tooth comb. Im a believer

ps I guarantee pwc doesnt know whether MG video poker double up cards are generated when a user presses "double up", before a user presses "double up" or when a user "farts very loud".

[TheBloke]

The doubling in MG VP is categorically not rigged.

When you click Double, the server chooses a card for the dealer and then chooses a card for the player. The higher card wins and it is all generated using the RNG and a truly random 50/50 shot as you would expect.

The game is deceptive in that it suggests that the user is actually choosing one of four cards to be compared against the dealer's. In fact whichever card he clicks on will be displayed as the already chosen player card, and the other three are never used.

This does not in any way alter the odds of winning, and in fact it makes the MG double feature quicker than that on other casinos which have to contact the server twice - once to get the dealer card, then again to see which card you selected. It is a lie in a way, but not one that actually matters except perhaps psychologically - in the same way that some people think it matters which spot you sit at at a blackjack table, or think it matters if other BJ players make dumb decisions.

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by TheBloke

This does not in any way alter the odds of winning, and in fact it makes the MG double feature quicker than that on other casinos which have to contact the server twice - once to get the dealer card, then again to see which card you selected. It is a lie in a way, but not one that actually matters except perhaps psychologically - in the same way that some people think it matters which spot you sit at at a blackjack table, or think it matters if other BJ players make dumb decisions.

Correct, it actually does not matter for the player. But it is deceptive which
I do not like. And using card games when it actually is not a card game is
very poor gambling business ethics, and it is illegal in same cases, but probably
not here unfortunately.
I am still disappointed over MG in this.

[Zoozie]

I still find it funny MGs preview picture for 4-line Dueces wild (also a few other games) is obviously rigged. I did contact 32Red a year ago and they said they would contact MG, but it is not fixed yet.

Zoozie

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by TheBloke

This does not in any way alter the odds of winning, and in fact it makes the MG double feature quicker than that on other casinos which have to contact the server twice - once to get the dealer card, then again to see which card you selected.

It might make the game quicker, but the average player simply wastes time selecting a card when in fact he no longer has any influence over the result.

I agree with the general opinion that it's probably deception rather than rigging, but if you're treating card games as (correctly weighted) slots, and only then displaying cards to make them look normal, you'd only have to alter one variable to rig the game. It also suggests the enduring perception of players that MG card games seem to give the correct long-term payout but behave unnaturally might have a basis in fact.

In any case it's yet more evidence that players should be very wary of on-line casino software. It follows that:

1) Audits (whether by PWC or eCOGRA) are close to worthless if they don't get qualified people to examine the way the software operates, rather than just the results

2) In a case where a non-random game is proven (as with EH VP doubling), we can't give the casino any benefit of the doubt - zero tolerance may well be the best means of exerting at least a limited amount of pressure on the casinos to offer fair games.

[sal monella]

Very disturbing IMO. I've never really tried Microgaming VP doubling, but I've done some doubling on their slots, and the results seemed very fair.

But if a game is presented as a card game, it needs to function the same as if actual cards were being used, or at least include a disclaimer in the rules.

[TheBloke]

It does function just like a card game.

All that is false is that it appears like you can choose any of the next four cards in the deck, whereas you always get the next card in the deck.

They appear to have cut a corner in order to speed the game up. I guess they figured since it makes no difference which card you select, they may as well choose the card for you and have a VP double that runs faster than the competition. It's still a random card from a shuffled deck, so you will still win 50% of the time, so what does it matter?

I agree it was probably a stupid decision - they know how superstitious and suspicious gamblers are (casinos make a lot of money because of that), so they should have realised that if anyone ever noticed people would jump to illogical conclusions. None of their comptetitors cut that corner and are all doing fine, so it was an unnecessary step.

But it is not a cheat, and nothing like the other 'VP is rigged' stories we have seen recently.

[The Watchdog]

This thread might be the most amazing thread I have ever read...

Just when I thought I knew crap about Video Poker, this thread showed me I actaully knew less than what I thought..

So please do me a favor and help me out.

is the following statement a fact?

On Microgaming's Video Poker when you hit double, the dealer's card and the card you are going to get are already determined when clicking double?

Meaning that regardless what card you pick you have already lost or won??

Damn that surprises me big time. I have never played video poker at Microgaming, but I do have played some at Playtech.

If the doubling feature of Playtech works like MG's I guarantee that is a better scam than MG's. At least in Playtech when you play the double feature in Jack's or Better Multiline or the regular one you get the feeling that the card you choose actually makes a difference.

This brings a lot of doubts to my mind. For example on games like Craps or Roulette.... I'll better make no further comments.

I would really like to see Playtech's and MG's explanation to this.

mmmm I don't like this at all... Is just disturbing... dunno what to think.

The chance of luck is not being provided by Video Poker then.

Regardless what you do when you hit double your fate has been set...
#@%@^ that...

Thanks to Casinomeister... if this site had never been set, I would never had learn about this.

I will take this to the Wizz to see what he has to say...

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by The Watchdog

is the following statement a fact?

On Microgaming's Video Poker when you hit double, the dealer's card and the card you are going to get are already determined when clicking double?

Meaning that regardless what card you pick you have already lost or won??

Yep, we don't know the exact process, but it's irrelevant which card you pick. It's probably just misleading, but it does make you wonder how many other corners Microgaming cut.

Another problem is the way the game actually works contradicts the game description in the software's on-line help:

If you win a hand in the game and want to Double, do the following:

1. Click the Double button. Five new cards are dealt, and the Dealer's card is turned face up.

2. Select any of the four remaining face down cards. All four are turned over to reveal their values and the card you selected is highlighted.

[Mousey]

2. Select any of the four remaining face down cards. All four are turned over to reveal their values and the card you selected is highlighted.

But... but... but... "the card you selected is highlighted". If the win/lose decision has already been predetermined by my clicking the Double button, I don't select anything!

And someone said this is the same way B&M games work?? Game King and IGT, or whoever makes the licensed machines?? I am really, really taken aback.