Microgaming VP doubling rigged

**happygobrokey** · 11th August 2006, 07:43 AM

the three cards not chosen (whether you or the computer chooses it) have no bearing on the game. instead of thinking "if only i'd clicked on that ace instead of this lousy 4" think "if only that ace was next in the randomly shuffled deck instead of this lousy 4".

would it be better if the software determined the outcome and made the cards reflect a no-win or always-win situation, i.e. you click double, software chooses player lose, software gives dealer a 9 and deals out 8,7,5,2 as the four next cards from which you choose? then it's not deceptive, but it does rig the cards, but it's still the same game...

what if someone offered you to play a coin flip, but insisted it be played as a 50/50 game where she writes A or B on a piece of paper and reveals it after you guess? it changes the parameters of the game but retains the same probability. now change the game to writing a number 1-10 and the player guessing odd or even, still fair right? now say the person staging the game types "odd" or "even" as the right answer into the computer and after the player guesses one way or the other, then the computer generates a number conforming to the predetermined outcome set by the initial input. where, if anywhere, does it become deceptive/unethical? reminds me of that movie "mafia!" and the casino has games like "heads or tails" and "how many fingers [am i holding up behind my back]?" how many fingers is definitely unethical as the post-determines the winning number to give a sure loss, or lowest loss in case of players betting on all the possible numbers.

i don't play VP, does the player ever match the dealer?? i'm guessing not.

**sirius** · 11th August 2006, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by happygobrokey

i don't play VP, does the player ever match the dealer?? i'm guessing not.

The cards will tie at times, as a full deck of cards is used. As people have mentioned, this does seem a bit strange but the choice of which card to choose is of no bearing really. The casino should still pick the cards in the same way with the normal RNG. The computer effectively just picks the next card instead and it is just as good as any choice the player would make. There is no difference at all to the odds and it was probably done so that it requires less contact with the server.

Both methods are arguably the same because the cards the player can choose are totally unknown and not sent by the server at all before the choice is made, as it would be easily hackable. Even for other casinos, how do you know that the server doesn't create the random cards after the player chooses? In other words, the player might not really be choosing existing cards at all. It shouldn't make any difference how it's done as long as the odds are the same as normal.

It is a bit worrying, though, because this kind of predetermining can make it easier for the casinos to cheat if they were inclined to do so. I mean the casinos could easily make the cards totally random, but not pick the player's card randomly. It would be harder to detect and easier to rig than if the players actually had a real choice and the cards were non-random.

**nafanny29** · 11th August 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by sirius

It is a bit worrying, though, because this kind of predetermining can make it easier for the casinos to cheat if they were inclined to do so. I mean the casinos could easily make the cards totally random, but not pick the player's card randomly. It would be harder to detect and easier to rig than if the players actually had a real choice and the cards were non-random.

I agree totally, and thats one of the reasons that this "shortcut" is not going down too well with many of us. We still dont even know if it is actually based on a deck of cards or not.

And I want to know what other "shortcuts" are lurking in the MG software. There could be loads for all we know.

**Zoozie** · 11th August 2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by nafanny29

We still dont even know if it is actually based on a deck of cards or not.

Agree! But I do believe it is, since the alternative is much more complex to
set up. The suggested method that the server autopick a card is the most logical one. But I definately still strongly disapprove of this.

Zoozie

**jpsartre** · 12th August 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by HateMG

What if they have some counter that allows only 4-5 max. Then it makes a huge difference and gives you an explanation why they implemented such shortcut. Of course I don't have any proof. It just a speculation on my part but on another hand noone can prove that this theory can't be true.

The post above made me think of quote from The Simpsons:

"That's okay, your tears say more than real evidence ever could!"

**liquuid_fusion** · 13th August 2006, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by HateMG

I remember a while ago somebody posted in this forum some VP screens with up to 9-10 winning doubles in a row off of a single win. I don't remember exactly if it was RTG or Playtech but it was definately not MG. So could it be MG designed it's VP double feature in such way just to prevent this from happenning? What if they have some counter that allows only 4-5 max. Then it makes a huge difference and gives you an explanation why they implemented such shortcut. Of course I don't have any proof. It just a speculation on my part but on another hand noone can prove that this theory can't be true.

Doubtful, i've seen a screenshot posted of 9 consecutive winning doubles at MG.

I'm too much of a wimp to double that much, however!

**Zoozie** · 13th August 2006, 09:36 AM

When you double at MG slots you can only double 5 times. Then you get the message: "Limit reached". So I suspected it was the samefor MG VP, but I have never doubled that much in VP to get that far. (And I have not doubled at all for the last year...)

Zoozie