Jackpot Factory/Affiliates and Players

[Pinababy69]

Firstly, I apologize for starting this thread in this particular forum. Simmo or Bryan, please move it to the appropriate forum if this is totally inappropriate. I probably would have put it in the Webmaster's section, but don't have access to post there. Seeing as it is a question directly related to the ongoing JF mess, I put it here so that the threads would be "together".

In doing a quick surf of various gambling portals and forums this morning, it simply astounds me how many webmasters and forum owners are still actively promoting, in some cases, downright pushing, Jackpot Factory.

It occurs to me that all the ECogra rulings and roguings in the world can't really hit Jackpot Factory where it hurts, and that is in the pocketbook. As long as affiliates continue to promote them and send them new players, I'm sure the powers that be at JF are laughing at all of us.

10 or 20 or even 100 individual casino players closing their accounts just doesn't make an impact. What does make an impact is a high profile webmaster who sends alot of new players their way refusing to promote them any longer, and thus cutting off their supply.

I visited the CAP (Casino Affiliate Programs) forum last night, still not even a mention of this posted there. Not one word. And this is the largest collection of high profile affiliates on the Web. I find it almost impossible to believe that they are not aware of this.

On the bright side, I have seen some positives. Webzcas, I visited your site, and while I still see JF banners, I see you have them redirecting to Roxy Palace. Thumbs up for doing the right thing. Simmo's site has the JF casinos still on his list, however he has them all crossed out, and big red letters informing everyone that they have been rogued at CM for unethical marketing practices. I like that idea. My friend Krypto who posted here the other day runs an EZBoard gambling forum, but what I consider to be one of the few good ones. Upon learning of this, she immediately erased every trace of them from her site, and closed all current promos she had running with them.

On the negative side, a high profile site such as WinnerOnline, still has their 400% promos plastered all over the main page. And even worse, everytime I go there, I get an exit popup which directs me to All Jackpots when I leave. They do however at least have a thread dedicated to this subject in their forum. GrandMaster, I have to ask you a question. Given your feelings on this whole matter, and from your posts, it appears they are as strong as mine, how do you feel about being a part of a site that still pushes this group? I totally understand you have zero control over what gets promoted, just asking for a personal opinion. If it were up to you, would you pull their advertising? I may just write to Jeff myself and ask him for a comment from the horse's mouth.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that these are purely business decisions being made here, and in some cases there is alot of possible revenue on the line. I guess what I'm trying to get at, is, where do you draw the line? I know you can't fight greed, it's one of the seven deadly sins, and sadly human nature. But at what point does money override all other moral and ethical considerations?

I didn't start this thread to start a new round of bashing. I'm truly interested in hearing any feedback from anyone regarding their views on this. Preferably constructive, if that's possible.

 

[Webzcas]

On the bright side, I have seen some positives. Webzcas, I visited your site, and while I still see JF banners, I see you have them redirecting to Roxy Palace.

Removing the banners is going to take time, if they are not served by a script or database which is the case with my sites.

However I have as you have seen for yourself changed the redirect for All Slots to Roxy. I need to do the same for WildJack Poker Room - The other JF site I promote.

I visited the CAP (Casino Affiliate Programs) forum last night, still not even a mention of this posted there. Not one word. And this is the largest collection of high profile affiliates on the Web. I find it almost impossible to believe that they are not aware of this.

Webmasters I have spoken to are well aware of this and there is a thread discussing this issue here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That said, Lloyd who is the Affiliate Manager for Brightshare is one of the most approachable and professional managers in the industry. Blame cannot be laid at his door IMO for this mess. I also feel this is why many webmasters have been quite quiet so far.

Personally what I would like to see happen is this:

1) JackPot Factory remove all remaining offending content.
2) Publically apologise and make a sizable donation to GamCare or similar charity.
3) eCOGRA to suspend JF's seals for 6 months.

If the first two measures are taken, I would be quite happy to promote their properties again. The third measure, will determine whether I personally continue to support eCOGRA and ensure my visitors to my sites are made aware of them.

 

[Renegade]

I am personally against any type of marketing that targets the weak and preys on them.
I want to make money, but I WILL NOT promote any one that has unethical marketing and business practices.
I don't care how much money is involved.
I have always tried to list only Online Casinos and Poker Rooms that do not have a bad rep.
I try my best to look out for the players.

I agree that we need to get the word out on JF, but we also have to take into account that no matter what is written about them, good or bad, they will benefit from having their name on our websites as far as the search engines goes.
If we can come up with something we can all place the same thing on our sites.

 

[Pinababy69]

That said, Lloyd who is the Affiliate Manager for Brigthshare is one of the most approachable and professional managers in the industry. Blame cannot be laid at his door IMO for this mess. I also feel this is why many webmasters have been quite quiet so far.

I agree Webzcas, and I sincerely hope that Jackpot Factory doesn't even THINK about trying to use him as a scapegoat in this. I wouldn't put it past them though, they've already shown the depths they'll sink to.

Thanks for the link to CAP, I'm on my way to read now. My apologies if I simply overlooked/missed it previously.

 

[Pinababy69]

I agree that we need to get the word out on JF, but we also have to take into account that no matter what is written about them, good or bad, they will benefit from having their name on our websites as far as the search engines goes.
If we can come up with something we can all place the same thing on our sites.

Thanks Renegade, I guess that's what I'm looking for...is to find out how many, if any, are willing to take a stand on this, and make a concerted effort to make sure that players are informed. There IS power in numbers, and if everyone (in a perfect world), or at least some, could get on the same page, I really think it could make a difference. Even if it's a small one.

 

[Webzcas]

Thanks Renegade, I guess that's what I'm looking for...is to find out how many, if any, are willing to take a stand on this, and make a concerted effort to make sure that players are informed. There IS power in numbers, and if everyone (in a perfect world), or at least some, could get on the same page, I really think it could make a difference. Even if it's a small one.

The really sad thing about this whole situation is that there was no need for them to resort to these underhand marketing activities. All Slots and their sister sites have built up a very good reputation over time by treating their players very well. The imbecile that approved and co-ordinated this marketing campaign has undone all their hard work.

 

[Renegade]

One of the main problems that I see, is that alot of webmasters are only concerned with affiliate checks, and don't care about what a casino does, as long as the money keeps coming in.
We all talk about and would love to have a true Gaming Commission that would handle these things for the BETTERMENT OF THE GAMBLING INDUSTRY.
One of the ways to try and get webmasters on the same page would be to try a Webmaster's seal of approval...A webmaster's commission maybe??? Something along those lines where like-minded webmasters could ban together to MAKE THE BIG DIFFERENCE.
IF someone could come up with this...I'm all for it.
Thank you Pinababy69, for your efforts, morals, and strong will in this.

 

[Renegade]

Webzcas


From what I gathered on the other post is that they have been doing this marketing since 2005...The links were hidden within the pages, but then somehow the links got seen.
They may have been, and may still be, a great casino as far as the players are concerned, but now one has to take into account, did they get that way with ONLY great CS???? Or did they get that way from BOTH CS AND the hidden links????

 

[Webzcas]

www.gpwa.net
www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com
www.igami.org

 

[Pinababy69]

The really sad thing about this whole situation is that there was no need for them to resort to these underhand marketing activities. All Slots and their sister sites have built up a very good reputation over time by treating their players very well. The imbecile that approved and co-ordinated this marketing campaign has undone all their hard work.

I absolutely agree on that Webzcas. Besides 32Red, these were the only casinos that I played at anymore at all. I hadn't played there in a while, but it's safe to say I won't be anymore, ever!!

And you are more forgiving than I am, because I would never promote this group again. But that is totally your prerogative, and I respect that. As I mentioned previously, I'm intelligent enough to realize that this is how some of you make your living, and sometimes you have to make what are purely business decisions, no different than large corporations.

I've read the thread on CAP, and while I was happy to see a few of your senior members immediately say they would yank/blacklist them, I was also disturbed to see some replies of "as long as they play their players and affiliates, I don't understand the problem". If someone doesn't get it, no amount of explanation in the world is going to change their mind. Again, thanks for the link.

 

[Pinababy69]

Renegade, thanks!! This has become very personal for me, and when I sink my teeth into something, I'm tenacious if nothing else. That and a buck will get me a cup of coffee. But at least when I go to sleep, I can know that I tried. You can't control what other people do, but you always have full control over yourself and your own actions. I try to live by that.

 

[mucullus]

I want to make money, but I WILL NOT promote any one that has unethical marketing and business practices.
I don't care how much money is involved.
I have always tried to list only Online Casinos and Poker Rooms that do not have a bad rep.
I try my best to look out for the players.

No offense, but do you think Gambling Federation complies with your principles (you seem to promote your own GFED white label casino in your sig. and profile)?
Think of the malicious altering of the hosts file or refusing a player to pay because he signed up at more than one GFED casino (which then was not disallowed)...

 

[Renegade]

you seem to promote your own GFED white label casino in your sig. and profile

Yes I do promote my own g-fed casino.
I can say that no player (knock on wood) who has downloaded and played my casino has ever had a problem.
Gambling Federation is my parent company, I have been with them for a long time.
The trouble you speak of I have not known about.
If a player was not paid, I am sorry about this. I do not have control over that.
I am not a G-Fed employee, nor CEO. I just have my own casino with them.
I can assure you that that problem did not occur from my casino. If it had, I would have known about it. And hopefully corrected it.

I personally place my name and my email on my casino site with pride.
I try my best to list only casinos and poker rooms and affiliate programs that pay their players and do not have a bad rep.

I am sorry that you feel G-Fed is a bad company.

Please also note, I did not join CM to promote my casino....I joined CM so I could learn more of the Gambling Industry from those who have been doing it for a long time.
And as far as I can tell, Byran has not Rogued or Blacklisted G-Fed.
If I'm wrong, please provide me with the links.

 

[Linus]

Pina, FWIW, a few months ago Party bought out Empire, and notified the affiliates they wouldn't be honoring Empire's revenue-share agreements.

The affiliates at CAP were up in arms about it, and swore up and down they'd stop promoting Party.

But when you visited their sites - they didn't stop. They didn't take any action at all. Talk is cheap, but action = $$$.

I don't know how profitable JF is for its affiliates, but I wouldn't expect *most* affiliates to take any action over this, if they're making money from them.

 

[Pinababy69]

Talk is cheap, but action = $$$.

I don't know how profitable JF is for its affiliates, but I wouldn't expect *most* affiliates to take any action over this, if they're making money from them.

Sadly Linus, for once you and I agree on something. It's too bad, because as long as people continue to promote them, I really don't think they will ever learn. And if they WOULD take a hard stance with just one of these casinos, I think it might make others sit up and take notice. Too bad it's not a perfect world, and we have to deal in realities.

 

[Simmo!]

There is a core of affiliates who work together and take appropriate action at times like these. Webzcas and I were working a strategy on JF as soon as we saw the issue arise. Same with Dominique when the 888 saga sprang up.

GPWA and CAP act as good meeting places, but I think the number of affiliates who use those forums are probably a mere drop in the ocean and there are a lot of affiliates who are simply in it for the money. That's the way things are these days, in any line of business unfortunately.

My preferred stance in situations in these is rarely to remove outright but instead to provide the "whole picture" and let people judge for themselves. You may also have noticed my pro-eCOGRA text has been surreptitiously removed pending their response

 

[Pinababy69]

Simmo, I absolutely love the way you've set up your site. And the fact that you leave them there, but put the red text in informing people of the status. I think that speaks louder than just removing them entirely.

And I am thankful that there are affiliates like you and Webzcas and Spear and Bryan and some others here who do have some ethics and morals, it gives me some hope for this industry yet. Thanks.

Ooops, sorry Renegade, not to overlook your offers of help as well.

 

[Simmo!]

Simmo, I absolutely love the way you've set up your site. And the fact that you leave them there, but put the red text in informing people of the status.

And it's way more fun

Seriously though, if you think about it logically, why would any affiliate want to send a player to a casino where there are serious issues that means there is a chance they won't be happy? Everyone loses that way. Plus I'm not a gerat fan of the "rogue" term personally when the casino is otherwise an operation who treats the playyers pretty well. My opinion of what makes a "rogue" is obviously going to be different to other people, so it makes sense just to state the facts.

 

[Renegade]

Thank you Pinababy69.
I was hoping my above post about G-Fed didn't sour anyone towards me. LOL

On another note, and trying not to get off track...I need to ask something..
I just got off MSN Messenger with one of my account managers...They want me to promote CD Poker.
I stressed that I only promote sites that do not :xxx players. I was assured that CD Poker has a decent rep.
I only ask for a yah or nah on the rep...Not a long story.
Is CD Poker safe enough for players to list????
I am currently in the process of making some sign up deals with CD Poker...however, I will drop them with a quickness if I must.
Are they sound enough and safe enough for players today????

Thank you
and so sorry pina that this is off track, but I wanted it to be known that I do look out for players and not the money.

 

[mucullus]

And as far as I can tell, Byran has not Rogued or Blacklisted G-Fed.
If I'm wrong, please provide me with the links.

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[Pinababy69]

Renegade, there are a couple of threads here re: CD Poker. I wouldn't promote them personally, but I don't know that much about them. Why don't you do a "search" at the top there and see what you come up with. There should be at least two threads that I know of.

Shows you what I know, I didn't even realize that GFed had been rogued. Fat lot of good I am.

 

[Renegade]

Ok mucullus, So what do you want me to do about this????
Scrap My own casino????
The Malware is uncalled for, and has been removed to the best of my knowledge.
I had no partaking in that whatsoever.
I do thank you for pointing that out to me, I just don't know what you expect me to do?
I try and run a tight ship...My concerns have always been to the players.
I try my utmost best to only promote sites that do not :xxx players.
That is my stance....

 

[Renegade]

It's ok Pina, I didn't know either..
But alas, I have a g-fed casino, for better or for worse...G-Fed is my parent company.
If Byran, god forbid, decides to add my site to the list with G-fed, then I must accept that.

But this is in noway, shape or form, an indication that my views and honestly are not for the players.

 

[Pinababy69]

I'm going to dredge up this topic yet again, because I think it is vitally important. Until such a point when affiliates/webmasters/portal owners decide to band together and hit these casinos where it hurts (in the pocketbook), all the eCOGRA rulings/suspensions in the world are merely a start. They've done their part, and I've seen quite a few affiliates calling for them to do exactly what they've done.

So now it's time to step up to the plate and do your part too. As mentioned previously, there are some encouraging signs from some very prominent webmasters. I'd like to add Gonegambling to that list. I visited their site this morning, and found nary a trace of any Jackpot Factory casino. Thanks Deb and John, big thumbs up!!

On the downside, a huge portal such as WinnerOnline is still laden with with signup offers for all of their casinos, on their main page. A small bright note, on my last visit there, the exit popup leading to All Jackpots seems to be gone for the time being. That's a start.

On reading CAP, it seems that the affiliates there are about split..some have taken down their advertising, while others don't seem to think it's a big deal. They've commented how Lloyd (the affiliate manager) has always treated them well, and their players have always been looked after. Nothing against Lloyd, he is a great affiliate manager I'm sure. But really, that's not what this issue is about.

I guess what I find most disheartening is that the ONLY time I've ever seen affiliates band together and take decisive action, is when their own income is directly affected. Case in point, HR4777. I agree that it was and still is a most important issue, and should demand the attention of EVERYONE involved in online gaming. But anyone who can't see the big picture involved with this issue, just doesn't get it. This will affect your income when the anti-gaming lobbyists in Washington get wind of it. And then you are going to wish that you HAD taken more decisive action, and gone so far as to condemn this group, rather than continuing to promote them. If you guys don't see this, I don't know how in the world to make you understand, I really don't. So keep on promoting JF, and when Goodlatte brings up this issue while trying to garner support for his bill, don't say you haven't been warned. All of this is of course, JMO....all one and a half cents worth.

 

[Pinababy69]

How likely is it that one mischevious employee can publish anything to their website without permission from higher-ups?

Not very.

Even if it were possible that such a breach did occur, it isn't likely that it would have remained online another day once management was made aware of it.

IMO they pushed the envelope willingly, got caught, and are now backtracking only because of subsequent pressure.

This scenario happens all too frequently in this business.

Hi Row, haven't seen you in a while. On a real quick perusal of your site, I see both All Jackpots and Wildjack on your main page. Just wondering if you plan to take them down? I know that sometimes these things can't happen immediately, and I'm really not trying to put anyone on the spot, but I have to ask. Given your comments above, it would seem that you do condemn the casino's actions.

 

[sdaddy]

Talk about irresponsible. There is an article posted today at Online Casino News about the recent "certification" given to Jackpot Factory by the casino portal Online Gambling Insider (www.online-gambling-insider.com). Also, shame on OCN for publishing this.

http://www.onlinecasinonews.com/ocnv2_1/article/article.asp?id=10706

Online Casino Receives Certification
By Andrew B

The Jackpot Factory Group has paid out more than $4 billion to players since its launch in 1999 and it's not just their customers who are celebrating after the group has been fully certified by the independent industry portal, Online Gambling Insider.

Already a holder of the coveted eCOGRA (eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance) seal, the casinos reputation is sure to be further enhanced by this latest announcement.

The group had to pass a strict examination to achieve certification. The most important factor taken into account when awarding a certificate is the player experience. Online Gambling Insider staff test each casino as real players, and over a period of time, every aspect of the casino or poker room's operation is experienced first hand.

Ryan D, editor and founder of Online Gambling Insider, said, 'The eCOGRA seal is a very important indicator of the integrity and fair gaming principles that an online casino subscribes to, and it is no surprise that The Jackpot Factory passed the necessary tests to receive seals for its casinos and poker room.'

The certification extends right a cross the Jackpot Factory group and means that in all four casinos and the poker room players are protected up to a maximum of $1,000 in deposits, should they ever have a problem.

 

[Pinababy69]

Thanks sdaddy. I would assume this webmaster has an email addy on their site? I'll go take a look.

 

[Pinababy69]

Another letter sent. And for those of you who think I'm probably wasting my time, you're more than likely right. However, the way I look at is....if I send ten or twenty letters to high ranking websites, and even one of them has second thoughts, and pulls the advertising for these rogues...that to me is a victory.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa xxxxx
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: "Online Gambling Insider contact"


Hello,

Your website was brought to my attention via a poster on Casinomeister's forum.

Upon visiting today, not only was I disturbed by the heavy advertising in place for Jackpot Factory casinos, but incredibly amazed that you go so far as to advertise All Slots as your "Casino Of The Month".

Are you aware of what is going on with Jackpot Factory? Are you aware of the sleazy marketing campaign they have been caught partaking in? They have directly targeted several groups of disadvantaged people (ie. elderly, poor, suicidal, depressed, ADHD sufferers, breast cancer patients, etc.), all in hopes of garnering increased search engine hits. I do not know you how you feel about such tactics, but I find this disgusting and reprehensible.

Furthermore, eCOGRA has suspended their seals pending further investigation. At the very least, they should be removed from your list of eCOGRA certified casinos.

Should you wish to further avail yourself of the full details, you can read about it by clicking this link.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/jackpot-factorys-inspirational-stories.12659/

I can only hope that you as a responsible webmaster would take this issue very seriously, especially given the current situation with online gaming and the US attempting to ban same. This only gives the anti-gaming lobbyists further ammunition to use, and it needs to be shown that responsible people are at the forefront of this industry, and will not tolerate this behaviour.

Kind Regards,

Lisa xxxxx

 

[Pinababy69]

I have heard back from the webmaster who runs the site Online-Gambling-Insider.com. They are aware of the situation, and do take it very seriously. They have for now agreed to remove All Slots as their featured casino, and are working on removing some references to JF on their homepage. They do read here, and if they read this, I'd like to say a very public thank you!!

So, if anyone is wondering what they can do to help, if they are so inclined, it wouldn't hurt to send a few emails to prominent webmasters, politely inquiring if they are aware of the situation. JMO.

Edited to change the site name...sorry. Very important to give credit to the appropriate person.

 

[sdaddy]

Another letter sent. And for those of you who think I'm probably wasting my time, you're more than likely right. However, the way I look at is....if I send ten or twenty letters to high ranking websites, and even one of them has second thoughts, and pulls the advertising for these rogues...that to me is a victory.

I say, stay on it, Pinababy. This is a very important issue, and your tenacity is to be commended.:notworthy

 

[Pinababy69]

Thank you for bringing that particular site to my attention sdaddy.

 

[CYBIL]

Pina since you are so upset over this, will you no longer be running your 32 red sponsorship on a site that is promoting Jackpot Factory right now? They have an ongoing contest as we speak and you just closed your 32 red contest not even a few days ago, Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Also I see they promote another rogue group of casinos the Grand Prive and if I remember not too long ago you were entering contest and depositing there after they were rogued!

There are affiliates that are not in it for the money, there are some that dropped Grand Prive before they were rogued and took a nice hefty cut I am sure to stand up for players.

I think your being a hypocrite and should come down off your soapbox!

 

[Scooter7]

I love the smell of a first post troll in the morning

Pina since you are so upset over this, will you no longer be running your 32 red sponsorship on a site that is promoting Jackpot Factory right now? They have an ongoing contest as we speak and you just closed your 32 red contest not even a few days ago, Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Also I see they promote another rogue group of casinos the Grand Prive and if I remember not too long ago you were entering contest and depositing there after they were rogued!

There are affiliates that are not in it for the money, there are some that dropped Grand Prive before they were rogued and took a nice hefty cut I am sure to stand up for players.

I think your being a hypocrite and should come down off your soapbox!

1. You obviously haven't read all the threads relating to this issue. If you had, you would see that Pina is extremely pro-active with regards to this topic.

2. How much action each person takes or doesn't take with regards to 'sending a message' to operators is a personal choice. None of us have the right to force our will on the rest of the group.

3. I'm so glad your very first post ever on the account you registered today was so warm and friendly. I'm sure you've made a lovely first impression with everyone. For your next post, why don't you tell Simmo how little he knows about slot machines? :machinegu

 

[Pinababy69]

Pina since you are so upset over this, will you no longer be running your 32 red sponsorship on a site that is promoting Jackpot Factory right now? They have an ongoing contest as we speak and you just closed your 32 red contest not even a few days ago, Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Also I see they promote another rogue group of casinos the Grand Prive and if I remember not too long ago you were entering contest and depositing there after they were rogued!

There are affiliates that are not in it for the money, there are some that dropped Grand Prive before they were rogued and took a nice hefty cut I am sure to stand up for players.

I think your being a hypocrite and should come down off your soapbox!

All of my 32Red banners etc. have been removed from that site, by me. You really should learn what the hell you're talking about before you shoot your mouth off. I can't control what they do, but I can control what I do. My stuff is gone from there and has been for close to a week.

But thanks for your concern.

 

[Pinababy69]

For Cybil

I don't usually share correspondence with a casino, but since this is what I sent to them, and not the other way around, I figure it's okay, and it is only an excerpt. Wow, have I hit some nerves haven't I? That's a good thing. And for the record Cybil, the only hypocrites are the ones who continue to promote these casinos, in spite of what they've done. And actually have the gall to say they believe the ridiculous statements being made by JF.

From: Lisa [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: 02 June 2006 15:38
To: Lee Simmonds
Subject: Cadillac Jack's Contest



Hi Lee,

I am sending you this info now, get to it when you can. I have closed the contest. I actually had been going to extend it for another week because it went up later in May, but I really don't think it would have made much of a difference. Added in my decision was the fact that the casinos of choice right now on EZBoard seem to be Jackpot Factory, and given their latest marketing ploy and their roguing at CM, I refuse to even put up a banner for 32Red on the same page as them. I'm a bit obsessive about stuff like that.

So there ya go Cybil, June 2nd, I made the decision to remove all traces of 32Red, seeing as I didn't want them associated with JF.

 

[jetset]

Ouch! Touche!

 

[Pinababy69]

Just to clarify one other point. The Grand Prive banners went up AFTER I removed my 32Red material. Again, I had no control over that, they are not mine. More importantly, that is a separate issue and should not be allowed to cloud this one, which in case anyone has forgotten, is Jackpot Factory and their disgusting marketing tactics.

You've only strengthened my resolve, so thanks for that.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi,

perhaps I missed something but as I understand things, all JF did that has everyone upset is to have made a bad decision on who they hired for their SEO.

that could happen to anybody. And while I don't claim to know a lot about SEO, it seems to me that there surely couldn't be that much quality traffic derived from the sort of keywords/phrases which were targeted by the idiot who did the SEO.

JF has aknowledged the situation and made efforts to make things right. Whether they dragged their feet or not is in my opinion each individual's interpretation of the situation. One must remember that in these cases there are often more than one person involved in the decison making process and therefore time must be allowed for the process to make its rounds and then after the decision has been confirmed, time allowed for the changes to take place.

I know this won't sit well with some folks here, but in my opinion if this is the worst JF has ever done, they're still a long ways ahead of a lot of places.

Frankly I'm surprised there has been so much controversy raised over this matter. Has anyone that is owed money not been paid? Was there evidence of a game(s) which are rigged? Has JF refused to aknowledge the situation?

the answer to all three questions is no. While I am no big fan of bundling (which is SOP for the aff program of JF), and from an affiliate's pov, a very undesirable trait: my main concern has always been and will continue to be whether or not the player (the people who put their trust in my judgement) is 1. getting paid / fair games
2. getting decent customer service

Bad choices in who they hire in respect to their marketing and SEO approach is way, way down on my list as reason for not listing a casino.

The aff program (Lloyd) has taken responsibility for the matter and has taken steps to fix the problem. I don't know what more can be expected of them? Everybody makes mistakes. If you allow for the possibility that it might take some time for the management of JF to be made aware, then to make a decision, then to begin the process of making things right: I just don't see where they were so terribly awful?

 

[Pinababy69]

BB1Webs, no offense, but why don't you read the last two or three pages of the main JF thread, stuff that's just been posted in the last hour. Then come back and tell me that JF had no knowledge of what was being done. Thanks.

 

[Pinababy69]

Frankly I'm surprised there has been so much controversy raised over this matter. Has anyone that is owed money not been paid? Was there evidence of a game(s) which are rigged? Has JF refused to aknowledge the situation?

the answer to all three questions is no. While I am no big fan of bundling (which is SOP for the aff program of JF), and from an affiliate's pov, a very undesirable trait: my main concern has always been and will continue to be whether or not the player (the people who put their trust in my judgement) is 1. getting paid / fair games
2. getting decent customer service

If this is your sole criteria on judging whether a casino deserves to be promoted, then I'm banging my head against a wall here. The answer to your first two questions is no. The answer to the third is a resounding yes....they have totally failed to accept responsibility, instead choosing to blame this mess on outsourcing, and on one person.

As you'll see from the other thread, this was not the work of one person, and the same guy who owns Jackpot Factory, indeed owns the company (Spinspark) who hired lay people to write this crap. It all goes hand in hand, and for anyone to try and "spin" this into ignorance on behalf of this casino, is just insulting.

As to the terminology used in the articles, whether they got hits or not is irrelevant. The fact that anyone would make "light" of anyone suffering from cancer, depression, thoughts of suicide, financial worries, etc. is deplorable.

 

[derelict]

BB1Webs, no offense, but why don't you read the last two or three pages of the main JF thread, stuff that's just been posted in the last hour. Then come back and tell me that JF had no knowledge of what was being done. Thanks.

I believe they knew exactly what they were doing, but still agree with the sentiment. Yes, it's undesirable, especially from a search engine/affiliate point of view, but please, call it what it is. Tricky SEO.

Nobody was going to believe that playing slots would cause their deceased pets to come back to life. They were playing the optimization game and they did it well. Amazingly well. In fact, after I saw this thread I started noticing their results in some of my own searches. Is this bad? Absolutely. But from my perspective as a player, there are far worse things to be concerned about.

 

[Pinababy69]

But from my perspective as a player, there are far worse things to be concerned about.

And how do you think Goodlatte and his anti-gaming lobbyists in Washington are going to view this? As harmless? Targeting and making light of disadvantaged groups of people? If you believe this is no more important than a simple "bad strategy" marketing campaign, no amount of debate will ever convince you I guess.

 

[Linus]

I suspect Goodlatte & Co. are at least as concerned about foreign casinos ripping off Americans, as they are about scummy marketing campaigns.

 

[spearmaster]

Goodlatte and co are not the least bit interested in protecting Americans - though obviously they would like everyone to think so, and they will take any ammunition they can get. Their only objective is to hang their hats on some issue they can call their own.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi again,

first let me say that I totally respect your work in this niche Pina; and I respectfully choose to disagree on this matter; while overall I still have issues with the aff side that JF uses; because they choose to bundle their network.

second I have to say that I find the text so absurd that its tempting to say that anybody stupid enough to fall for that crap deserves what they get .... but in fact I can understand how it is possible that somebody so very down on their luck/life that they might actually believe ... but realistically I think it is unlikely any reasonable thinking person is going to read such an insult to one's own intelligence and come away inspired by anything that I have read ...

that said; the best thing I can offer to show that I believe JF did not in fact know what was going on; is not by a current explanation of things, but rather by an explanation I had sent a player over a recent issue involving ... allslots (or all jackpots, I forget which, oh well, I'll copy enough you can see what's going on) ... anyway, I since it will likely be a bit long, I will put in red the more important parts.

... before I add the quote I think the fact that JF came and posted the pages were taken down when in fact they were not ... more so proves my point because who in their right mind would be stupid enough to come here and boldly make such a statement .... knowing it is not true? I just don't see it happening. What I very much DO see happening is what i have come to expect from almost every online casino. The right hand making promises or claims that the left hand has no idea about: or perhaps its that the right hand orders a job done, then the left hand claims it is done when in fact it is not... but eventually it is my experience that the matter usually does get attention. Just not in a timely fashion.

anyway, here's the quote:

Steve, thanks for keeping in touch; All Jackpots did deposit the $100 in my account and of course I wagered and lost it; they also sent me an email late last night or this morning saying that they will cancel the check and deposit the money in my Neteller account. I'm sure they are waiting to make sure the check is cancelled before paying. If you could just stay involved until they actually pay, by the way, they didn't ask for the check back and can cancel it without me returning it so I guess I have a souvenir from Lebanon. I also took the $200 you gave me and wagered it at Spin Palace ($50) and All Jackpots ($140) and have about $20 left on the All Jackpots, I figured that after all of this and my new Neteller account, I should be gold but alas I didn't win. As soon as I receive my payment I will let you know and if you could just recommend a few places I'd appreciate it as I would like to gamble some of it.

David
----- Original Message -----
From: steve from bondedcasinos.com
To: David
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Hi David,

ya Proc-Cyber has been a hemorrhoid for MGS for a long time because they are a separate entity they don't worry about a casino's rep the way the casino itself would.

If you could,... please let me know what casino you sign up and play at? and how you did in the end.

I'm still awaiting a reply from my contacts which I'm certain they are waiting on Proc-Cyber.

I also gave jackpots a bunch of shit about making promises not kept, so you're $100 may be in the account by now.

... David I've no excuse for all this except to say that if you visit my pages where I've posted the jackpots I've hit: you'll see that probably there are more jackpots won at Allslots than any other MGS casino. And they've always paid me and those were amounts far exceeding $800, (I've sometimes cashed in as much as $5000 at one time), and many of those were before I was well-known to the casinos. Link Removed (and pages following. links are at bottom of the pages)

you've just hit a bad run of luck on getting paid but (and I've no reason to back one bunch of casinos over another ... of the ones i list), I wouldn't write-off jackpots ... I mean once they get things made right and prove to you they are a quality casino despite their failings this time around.

Its been my experience that i for some reason or another, will get a casino that I am luckier at; for a stretch of time anyways. And jackpots might be yours. Your experience sure jives with what i could expect from finding my lucky casino, lol.

.... nothing easy in this life.

before I go I will ask if you are in correspondence with Jackpots and have worked something out or do i need to stay involved? Also please know that aside the fact they've written the wrong date (still wondering how they arrived at that?) that simply due to the fact the US feds are always pressuring: that complications do happen with all online casinos finding a way around the obstacles that the feds put up ... in order to be able to take and send money. Because of all the different avenues they must use; it is not hard (once you've been around online gambling for while) to understand how there are so many instances that don't end up coming out the way they should have.

I am certain they would pay you thru NETeller if you choose that route; but as I said before they may want the check back before letting go the funds.

just let me know what i need to be doing. I don't want to be in the way but also don't want you feeling I left you hanging. So you know i am at your service.

and I very much will want to know when/if Jackpots satisfies you. I do know they'll pay you what is owed. whether or not that is satisfaction would be up to you.

.... I forgot to mention to my contacts that you had since gotten a NETeller account but will be sending a letter to them about it now. However if that sounds good to you as a payment method you should mention to them rather than wait for them to ask you (because my contacts are not the same as you are likely to be in touch with; and often times (the bonus $100 deal is a good example) ... the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing ... in the same time frame as you are going to have. meaning that if someone promises a $100 bonus, ... that it is then sent to another branch of the casino where after someone at that branch looks over the situation; they then add the bonus.

This can sit on somebody's desk for a few hours, even a day's time before it gets actually done and thus ends up making the casino look bad. * I've tried to get them to address this in the past but I think what happens is that the process gets better attention for a while but then people get less adamant and all of a sudden you have stuff sitting on their desks again for too long.

What I am always ultimately worried about is having casinos listed that are going to pay the big wins. The rest of it in my opinion is stuff that a person is likely to come across at any online casino at any given time. People are people and therefore you're going to come across those support agents which are nicer, more competent, etc. At any and all the casinos. Nothing much can be done about that.

Of course I realize my saying that and that fact you haven't yet been paid by jackpots is contradictory but I truly am confident they will get things made right for you. Hell I've already invested $200 in it and if that's not confidence I don't know what is? .

so rest assured if they do fail you, in the end I'll pay up the difference. But please allow time for them to do so. And it will take a little time I'm afraid so don't lose faith.

Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To: steve from bondedcasinos.com
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Thanks for the response and you're right, Proc-Cyber is the company that cut the check drawn on a Canadian-Lebanese bank and the Bank of NY. I"ll hang in there and thanks for the Neteller money.

DAvid
----- Original Message -----
From: steve from bondedcasinos.com
To: David
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Hi David,

I have used a little detective common sense and found that you used the same email address at NETeller and have as such transferred to you the amount of $200 (I think it will come as like $196)

I feel this is enough of an effort on my part to have teeth and show that i am not going to let you down on this ... so please bare with me as I get it all made right.

Please know anything i send is from myself and nothing to do with the casino so please never confuse the two when in correspondence with the casino as we don't want to get those idiots (apparently from the competence they've shown so far) at the banking center any more reason to hold things up than already has been done.

I have forwarded your letter to my contacts and without having a reply from them to say for certain, I'm pretty sure that their banking is done thru Proc-Cyber or perhaps another of only a handful of institutes that all the casinos using the parent software Microgaming are using: and thus Jackpots isn't really to blame for the mistake on the check in respect to the fact it could have happened to any casino using that particular banking institute.

how the hell they arrived at putting that date on the check is beyond my imagination.

anyway, I know at least now that you've got some positive proof that I'm going to get this made right, and I very much appreciate your patience.

Highest Regards

Steve.

 

[Pinababy69]

Steve, I give you full credit for going the distance to ensure that your player was looked after. Not all affiliates are so tenacious, or generous.

I don't doubt you when you say that you believe that upper management had no hand in this. But it's here where we disagree. Given what's come to light today, I will never be sold on the fact that this was the work of one overzealous employee. The company that owns the firm who did all this crap, is the same company who owns Jackpot Factory. End of story for me. But hey, I admire anyone whose convictions are as strong as mine, even if we don't agree. I also believe that some of that conviction of yours comes from confidence in Lloyd, and I really believe that the casino has put him out on the front lines for that very reason. He has the respect and trust of the affiliate community, who better to deal with this issue publicly? And yet, he's probably the one person who really didn't know this shit was going on. Sort of ironic.

Anyway, thanks for your post. You have more nerve than me, as I wouldn't post at CAP right now for all the tea in China. I'd feel like I was jumping into shark infested waters with a bleeding cut on my leg, lol.

I'm not trying to change anyone's minds, people's minds are more than likely already made up. What I do want to do is make sure that people do get the whole story, and that this doesn't get swept under the rug as no big deal.

 

[GrandMaster]

Nobody was going to believe that playing slots would cause their deceased pets to come back to life.

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

 

[TheBloke]

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

Agreed. To put it more bluntly - most people are stupid. That's why they call a $5/min premium rate number when a letter arrives saying "You have won a $1m prize ... or a pebble"

Scammers, con-men, and advertising/marketing executives have made lots of money throughout history because of this.

Almost by definition, anyone reading these forums is not stupid. It's the rest of the world that we're trying to protect.

 

[bb1webs]

thanks Pina.

... and like I said; they're still on my poop list for bundling. So we can at least agree that we both have issue with them if nothing else.

 

[derelict]

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

I know what you're saying, but in reading the stories, I didn't get the impression that they were written with the intent of being taken seriously. It was pointed out that the text was previously the same color as the background so as not to be readable. I would guess that some search engines had means to detect this trick, so the text was made human readable to appear legitimate to spiders.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with these methods, and particularly not the likes of the depression keywords, but I think it's important to look at the issue objectively. It's certainly possible that someone would have taken a story at face value, but I don't believe that was the intent.

Just sayin. Carry on.