Jackpot Factory/Affiliates and Players

[derelict]

BB1Webs, no offense, but why don't you read the last two or three pages of the main JF thread, stuff that's just been posted in the last hour. Then come back and tell me that JF had no knowledge of what was being done. Thanks.

I believe they knew exactly what they were doing, but still agree with the sentiment. Yes, it's undesirable, especially from a search engine/affiliate point of view, but please, call it what it is. Tricky SEO.

Nobody was going to believe that playing slots would cause their deceased pets to come back to life. They were playing the optimization game and they did it well. Amazingly well. In fact, after I saw this thread I started noticing their results in some of my own searches. Is this bad? Absolutely. But from my perspective as a player, there are far worse things to be concerned about.

[Pinababy69]

But from my perspective as a player, there are far worse things to be concerned about.

And how do you think Goodlatte and his anti-gaming lobbyists in Washington are going to view this? As harmless? Targeting and making light of disadvantaged groups of people? If you believe this is no more important than a simple "bad strategy" marketing campaign, no amount of debate will ever convince you I guess.

[Linus]

I suspect Goodlatte & Co. are at least as concerned about foreign casinos ripping off Americans, as they are about scummy marketing campaigns.

[spearmaster]

Goodlatte and co are not the least bit interested in protecting Americans - though obviously they would like everyone to think so, and they will take any ammunition they can get. Their only objective is to hang their hats on some issue they can call their own.

[bb1webs]

Hi again,

first let me say that I totally respect your work in this niche Pina; and I respectfully choose to disagree on this matter; while overall I still have issues with the aff side that JF uses; because they choose to bundle their network.

second I have to say that I find the text so absurd that its tempting to say that anybody stupid enough to fall for that crap deserves what they get .... but in fact I can understand how it is possible that somebody so very down on their luck/life that they might actually believe ... but realistically I think it is unlikely any reasonable thinking person is going to read such an insult to one's own intelligence and come away inspired by anything that I have read ...

that said; the best thing I can offer to show that I believe JF did not in fact know what was going on; is not by a current explanation of things, but rather by an explanation I had sent a player over a recent issue involving ... allslots (or all jackpots, I forget which, oh well, I'll copy enough you can see what's going on) ... anyway, I since it will likely be a bit long, I will put in red the more important parts.

... before I add the quote I think the fact that JF came and posted the pages were taken down when in fact they were not ... more so proves my point because who in their right mind would be stupid enough to come here and boldly make such a statement .... knowing it is not true? I just don't see it happening. What I very much DO see happening is what i have come to expect from almost every online casino. The right hand making promises or claims that the left hand has no idea about: or perhaps its that the right hand orders a job done, then the left hand claims it is done when in fact it is not... but eventually it is my experience that the matter usually does get attention. Just not in a timely fashion.

anyway, here's the quote:

Steve, thanks for keeping in touch; All Jackpots did deposit the $100 in my account and of course I wagered and lost it; they also sent me an email late last night or this morning saying that they will cancel the check and deposit the money in my Neteller account. I'm sure they are waiting to make sure the check is cancelled before paying. If you could just stay involved until they actually pay, by the way, they didn't ask for the check back and can cancel it without me returning it so I guess I have a souvenir from Lebanon. I also took the $200 you gave me and wagered it at Spin Palace ($50) and All Jackpots ($140) and have about $20 left on the All Jackpots, I figured that after all of this and my new Neteller account, I should be gold but alas I didn't win. As soon as I receive my payment I will let you know and if you could just recommend a few places I'd appreciate it as I would like to gamble some of it.

David
----- Original Message -----
From: steve from bondedcasinos.com
To: David
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Hi David,

ya Proc-Cyber has been a hemorrhoid for MGS for a long time because they are a separate entity they don't worry about a casino's rep the way the casino itself would.

If you could,... please let me know what casino you sign up and play at? and how you did in the end.

I'm still awaiting a reply from my contacts which I'm certain they are waiting on Proc-Cyber.

I also gave jackpots a bunch of shit about making promises not kept, so you're $100 may be in the account by now.

... David I've no excuse for all this except to say that if you visit my pages where I've posted the jackpots I've hit: you'll see that probably there are more jackpots won at Allslots than any other MGS casino. And they've always paid me and those were amounts far exceeding $800, (I've sometimes cashed in as much as $5000 at one time), and many of those were before I was well-known to the casinos. http://onestopslots.com/jackpots.htm (and pages following. links are at bottom of the pages)

you've just hit a bad run of luck on getting paid but (and I've no reason to back one bunch of casinos over another ... of the ones i list), I wouldn't write-off jackpots ... I mean once they get things made right and prove to you they are a quality casino despite their failings this time around.

Its been my experience that i for some reason or another, will get a casino that I am luckier at; for a stretch of time anyways. And jackpots might be yours. Your experience sure jives with what i could expect from finding my lucky casino, lol.

.... nothing easy in this life.

before I go I will ask if you are in correspondence with Jackpots and have worked something out or do i need to stay involved? Also please know that aside the fact they've written the wrong date (still wondering how they arrived at that?) that simply due to the fact the US feds are always pressuring: that complications do happen with all online casinos finding a way around the obstacles that the feds put up ... in order to be able to take and send money. Because of all the different avenues they must use; it is not hard (once you've been around online gambling for while) to understand how there are so many instances that don't end up coming out the way they should have.

I am certain they would pay you thru NETeller if you choose that route; but as I said before they may want the check back before letting go the funds.

just let me know what i need to be doing. I don't want to be in the way but also don't want you feeling I left you hanging. So you know i am at your service.

and I very much will want to know when/if Jackpots satisfies you. I do know they'll pay you what is owed. whether or not that is satisfaction would be up to you.

.... I forgot to mention to my contacts that you had since gotten a NETeller account but will be sending a letter to them about it now. However if that sounds good to you as a payment method you should mention to them rather than wait for them to ask you (because my contacts are not the same as you are likely to be in touch with; and often times (the bonus $100 deal is a good example) ... the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing ... in the same time frame as you are going to have. meaning that if someone promises a $100 bonus, ... that it is then sent to another branch of the casino where after someone at that branch looks over the situation; they then add the bonus.

This can sit on somebody's desk for a few hours, even a day's time before it gets actually done and thus ends up making the casino look bad. * I've tried to get them to address this in the past but I think what happens is that the process gets better attention for a while but then people get less adamant and all of a sudden you have stuff sitting on their desks again for too long.

What I am always ultimately worried about is having casinos listed that are going to pay the big wins. The rest of it in my opinion is stuff that a person is likely to come across at any online casino at any given time. People are people and therefore you're going to come across those support agents which are nicer, more competent, etc. At any and all the casinos. Nothing much can be done about that.

Of course I realize my saying that and that fact you haven't yet been paid by jackpots is contradictory but I truly am confident they will get things made right for you. Hell I've already invested $200 in it and if that's not confidence I don't know what is? .

so rest assured if they do fail you, in the end I'll pay up the difference. But please allow time for them to do so. And it will take a little time I'm afraid so don't lose faith.

Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To: steve from bondedcasinos.com
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Thanks for the response and you're right, Proc-Cyber is the company that cut the check drawn on a Canadian-Lebanese bank and the Bank of NY. I"ll hang in there and thanks for the Neteller money.

DAvid
----- Original Message -----
From: steve from bondedcasinos.com
To: David
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Check


Hi David,

I have used a little detective common sense and found that you used the same email address at NETeller and have as such transferred to you the amount of $200 (I think it will come as like $196)

I feel this is enough of an effort on my part to have teeth and show that i am not going to let you down on this ... so please bare with me as I get it all made right.

Please know anything i send is from myself and nothing to do with the casino so please never confuse the two when in correspondence with the casino as we don't want to get those idiots (apparently from the competence they've shown so far) at the banking center any more reason to hold things up than already has been done.

I have forwarded your letter to my contacts and without having a reply from them to say for certain, I'm pretty sure that their banking is done thru Proc-Cyber or perhaps another of only a handful of institutes that all the casinos using the parent software Microgaming are using: and thus Jackpots isn't really to blame for the mistake on the check in respect to the fact it could have happened to any casino using that particular banking institute.

how the hell they arrived at putting that date on the check is beyond my imagination.

anyway, I know at least now that you've got some positive proof that I'm going to get this made right, and I very much appreciate your patience.

Highest Regards

Steve.

[Pinababy69]

Steve, I give you full credit for going the distance to ensure that your player was looked after. Not all affiliates are so tenacious, or generous.

I don't doubt you when you say that you believe that upper management had no hand in this. But it's here where we disagree. Given what's come to light today, I will never be sold on the fact that this was the work of one overzealous employee. The company that owns the firm who did all this crap, is the same company who owns Jackpot Factory. End of story for me. But hey, I admire anyone whose convictions are as strong as mine, even if we don't agree. I also believe that some of that conviction of yours comes from confidence in Lloyd, and I really believe that the casino has put him out on the front lines for that very reason. He has the respect and trust of the affiliate community, who better to deal with this issue publicly? And yet, he's probably the one person who really didn't know this shit was going on. Sort of ironic.

Anyway, thanks for your post. You have more nerve than me, as I wouldn't post at CAP right now for all the tea in China. I'd feel like I was jumping into shark infested waters with a bleeding cut on my leg, lol.

I'm not trying to change anyone's minds, people's minds are more than likely already made up. What I do want to do is make sure that people do get the whole story, and that this doesn't get swept under the rug as no big deal.

[GrandMaster]

Nobody was going to believe that playing slots would cause their deceased pets to come back to life.

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

[TheBloke]

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

Agreed. To put it more bluntly - most people are stupid. That's why they call a $5/min premium rate number when a letter arrives saying "You have won a $1m prize ... or a pebble"

Scammers, con-men, and advertising/marketing executives have made lots of money throughout history because of this.

Almost by definition, anyone reading these forums is not stupid. It's the rest of the world that we're trying to protect.

[bb1webs]

thanks Pina.

... and like I said; they're still on my poop list for bundling. So we can at least agree that we both have issue with them if nothing else.

[derelict]

But someone with gambling problems could believe that the reason he has been losing is that he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, and once he starts playing JF slots he is guaranteed to win. Someone with desperate financial problems might fall for the stories about people giving up their jobs and making a living by gambling. Many of the stories were aimed at vulnerable people who might be clutching at straws and not be able to make a rational decision.

I know what you're saying, but in reading the stories, I didn't get the impression that they were written with the intent of being taken seriously. It was pointed out that the text was previously the same color as the background so as not to be readable. I would guess that some search engines had means to detect this trick, so the text was made human readable to appear legitimate to spiders.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with these methods, and particularly not the likes of the depression keywords, but I think it's important to look at the issue objectively. It's certainly possible that someone would have taken a story at face value, but I don't believe that was the intent.

Just sayin. Carry on.