bellerock being akward over ID - locked accs and no payouts.

[marcholmes]

Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.

[Vesuvio]

I don't want to say much more pending a complaint to eCOGRA, but for me this issue has finally resolved one of the continual mysteries of on-line casinos: were the random reversals of cash-ins, nonsensical responses of CS and general disarray at Bellerock simply incompetence or a deliberate attempt to try and increase profits? Clearly the latter.

Just two points: 1) the "discrepancies" in the documents provided are an obvious lie (some basis in fact might be possible if just one or two people received it after sending in normal ID, but it's clearly sent out to everyone caught up in this).

2) "certifying" ID is an absurdity. All that's going to happen, even if you can persuade someone to certify it, is that you then have to scan a photocopy rather than the original document - so Bellerock have the same document but of lower quality. Is it really so hard in this day and age to confirm ID through other means - i.e. through the electoral register (for the UK) or on the basis of bank cards etc.

The problem then is that as the certified ID issue is just a red herring you have to wonder what excuse Bellerock will come up with not to pay after you've wasted all the time and effort providing it.

Ok, enough said for now - but players would be advised to steer clear of this group in favour of places where they know they'll be paid quickly if they win.

[el nino]

It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

I've played and won at casino no net and when it came to withdrawing money, there wasn't any problems. It was all done in 5 days. As for Monaco gold casino, they ask for two things:

1: photo copy of My driving license, front and back.

2: photo copy of the front and back of the debit card or credit card that was used to deposit money.

Why on earth do they ask for this?

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.

[Linus]

FWIW, here's what a casino has to do, before taking a player's money, according to eCogra:

100.R.6 The locking of player accounts shall be conducted through a formal documented process.

Here's what eCogra has to do, to take away a seal:

The following must take place before a seal can be withdrawn:

(i) the eGAP rules are clear and unambiguous;

(ii) a person or entity is given a chance to rectify any shortcomings or non-compliance;

(iii) the natural justice rules are followed in relation to disciplinary proceedings; and

(iv) the eGAP and natural justice rules are consistently applied on a
case to case basis.

The three cardinal rules of natural justice are:

1. A person or entity has the right to know the case against him. This typically requires:

. adequate notice of the allegations
. adequate notice of the hearing
. adequate notice of the procedure for determining the alleged breach(es)

2. A person or entity must have a fair opportunity to answer the charges and
present his own case.

3. A person has the right to a decision from an unbiased decision-maker.

In other words, the casino gets, (among other things) -

-- a "chance to rectify" any shortcomings
-- a "fair opportunity" to answer charges
-- a hearing before an "unbiased" decisionmaker.

The player gets -

-- a "documented procedure."



I wouldn't hold my breath. I hope I'm wrong, though.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by el nino

It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

...

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.

I do have a lot of sympathy for that. Judging by the way even "reputable" casinos have been behaving recently they're about the last people on earth I'd wish to have all that information. It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans. When I started playing I went through almost all the MG casinos without a single request for scans, though it was the norm at Playtech and RTG casinos.

Unfortunately the situation seems to have changed now and it's hard to play at casinos without providing ID, certainly if you actually win anything. There are one or two convincing reasons for it (even if I find it hard to take casinos talking about money laundering or under-age gambling very seriously), but overall I'm sure it's mainly there because they know they'll be able to find a reason not to pay a percentage of winners.

Anyway, I think sending scans is a necessary evil that has to be accepted if you want to play at on-line casinos. Asking for certified or notarized documents, on the other hand, is clear rogue behaviour and has no convincing justification. For an example: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...is-casino.html

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans.

Poker rooms - at least those not affiliated with casinos - don't ask for scans either.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by marcholmes

Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.

It is the job of a "Swearer of Oaths" to provide certification of a copy. They do this by seeing IN PERSON the original documents, and themselves producing the copy, which they then attach a seal of certification to - which is the "Swearing of the Oath" that said copy represents evidence of a true original document.
By sending this in as a JPEG negates the whole damn thing!, as the JPEG itself is NOT a certified copy, rather a copy of what may, or may not be, a certified copy of an original document.

This ID crap is beginning to get out of hand! While it is actually a requirement by eCogra, it seems to go wrong because the staff tasked with verification are not PROPERLY TRAINED - Obviously so, as if they were, they would know the POLICE don't do what they told the player to get done.

Sending in the ID should be followed by getting paid, not by the run-around. If the ID is evidence of fraud, only then should accounts be locked. How would they like it if eCogra revoked their seal, and THEN started trying to sort out this problem. This is support AGAIN for making advance verification to the casino's satisfaction before accepting the first deposit COMPULSORY. There would be no opportunity to "pull a stunt", they would have to turn away the player before making a cent from them (it would encourage them to speed up the process too).

[tombomb]

reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.

[vtlady]

Also, once you win at Bellerock they like to cut back what you can deposit. They are sore losers. If your waiting for them to approve anything you could be in for a long wait. I have been waiting for over a month now. Guess they just don't care.

[Let_It_Ride]

Originally Posted by tombomb

reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.

gotta agree about their CS, in my last conversation with one of their agents, he told me he was the SENIOR agent, the highest authority within river belle that I could speak to and that his word was FINAL, what arrogance!