GoWild don"t pay 3600€

[4 of a kind]

Lets get one thing clear, playing with a €200 deposit and €200 bonus, 29x WR on slots is absolutely +EV if betting as high as €12 and I would be very surprised if OP didn't know that.

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

You may consider these stakes large but would be considered peanuts to many gamblers. Many players will play $5.00 machines @ $15.00 per spin and bust out of 1k in less then 15 minutes.

[Jufo]

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

I'd advice for you to research this on your own.

[4 of a kind]

Can you PM me with these facts?

[Jufo]

Can you PM me with these facts?

Sure.

[ksech]

/derail/
Just curious... Wondering how many gamblers in the cyberworld are getting "cheated" by online casinos every day simply because they don't know about places like Casinomeister...

/end of derail/

[snoddy]

Have been reading this thread. Astonishing, worrying, alarming.
I think if I was fortunate enough to win a large amount , at any casino accredited or not, I would be very worried about being paid. Seems like they find any excuse to avoid paying out.
I have had my fair share of issues with online casino's and when I read about stuff like this I have to question whether its really worth it.
I'm a tad disallusioned with it all.

[zap987]

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

You may consider these stakes large but would be considered peanuts to many gamblers. Many players will play $5.00 machines @ $15.00 per spin and bust out of 1k in less then 15 minutes.

What matters is the betsize in relation to the total amount of €400 that is bound by WR. Exactly because a player will bust out very fast quite often is what makes it +EV for the player, because busting out means not wagering. The casino gives €200 away and the only way they can make it back is by the player wagering. What matters is not the individual results for a single player but the combined results of a lot of players, which will give the casino something like 5% back on the total wagered, assuming 95% RTP on slots. It's quite counterintuitive, but if someone wagers only €400 the casino only makes €20 back of the initial €200 they gave out as a bonus, just that it's not that particular player getting the money, it's one of the others playing the same way that will hit a big win.

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...onus-plot.html is one of these threads.

[SlotMonster]

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

Can someone please send me a links to these threads? It will be very interesting to read through them.

[chuchu59]

Have been reading this thread. Astonishing, worrying, alarming.
I think if I was fortunate enough to win a large amount , at any casino accredited or not, I would be very worried about being paid. Seems like they find any excuse to avoid paying out.
I have had my fair share of issues with online casino's and when I read about stuff like this I have to question whether its really worth it.
I'm a tad disallusioned with it all.

When times were good most casinos, some even bordering on the rogue, cared much about their reputation and would pay up if the player trumpeted their misdeeds openly provided the amounts involved were not massive. Ever since there was an issue over a payment over $270 at an rtg (cant remember name but it was an rtg) did I notice that reputation is starting to count less and even accredited casinos would try to pull tricks over players or at least start to do things that previously we thought were unthinkable. The JC group falls into this category as evidenced by the multiple threads on them lately and now its the turn of GoWild. It is common knowledge that a casino should not confiscate winnings with such vague terms such as 'not playing within the spirit of the bonus' yet for a sum of $3600 they tried it anyway. Dont tell me an accedited casino doesnt know CM's stance on this.

I am pretty certain more and more casinos, even accredited casinos, will try every trick in the book to deny players' winnings if they find 'something' to their advantage. I just hope I wont see the day when 32RED or 3 Dice does this.

[Jufo]

What matters is the betsize in relation to the total amount of €400 that is bound by WR. Exactly because a player will bust out very fast quite often is what makes it +EV for the player, because busting out means not wagering. The casino gives €200 away and the only way they can make it back is by the player wagering. What matters is not the individual results for a single player but the combined results of a lot of players, which will give the casino something like 5% back on the total wagered, assuming 95% RTP on slots. It's quite counterintuitive, but if someone wagers only €400 the casino only makes €20 back of the initial €200 they gave out as a bonus, just that it's not that particular player getting the money, it's one of the others playing the same way that will hit a big win.

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...onus-plot.html is one of these threads.

Like you said, whether the game play in this case was +EV or not is irrelevant since the terms were not broken. Also playing in a +EV manner doesn't necessarily mean that the player is even aware of it. Can you accuse someone from abusing a bonus if they are completely oblivious to the mathematics of it? For example in the thread you linked KasinoKing conflicted himself by saying that the bonuses he has played cannot be +EV, yet he couldn't explain his five year long winning streak.

Also, referring to your post, I don't know if it's smart to post the details of mathematics of gaining an edge here, because it certainly isn't going to make bonuses any better.