Virtual Group question

[phynqster]

From communicating with GM's in other casinos 'on the mend' I understand it is extremely difficult to root out certain thinking and practices that build up over time, it can run deep. I actually had a casino manager once tell me, "they might call me a crook for denying bonus abusers their winnings, but I'd rather be called a crook than a chump." I can see his point, absolutely, but...

You almost hit it on the head with this, but it actually pertains to all casinos and for that matter business. This is a business for the casino; it is a hobby for the player. When you start talking profits and losses, and reporting to board of directors and such things change. How does what a casino might due, compare to a car company who knows a car is defective but realize it will be more expensive to fix the problem, than pay the lawsuits from the "squeaky wheels". Think about what life in general would be like if there was little if any regulation on business? I think that everyone who "pitches one bitch" or makes one disparaging remark about the casino or the industry, should also post their congressmen or one of many different grass root organizations on forming a regulatory agency for internet gambling, if people would do this than we would see a change, until than it is just good profit and loss business for the casinos.

[lojo]

I hear ya, phynqster. When i had a specialty woods business our QC was so tight that we could take the allowable reject number and mix it in purposely. That might sound shitty, but for some reason i could never negotiate a higher price for a 'perfect load', so to stay competitive that 'slack' was sometimes my only profit margin. I couldn't change the industry by being a tail wagging the dog, and the customers were so used to having a mix of lower grade product that it was industry standard.

I don't really see the online gambling business ever being completely driven by market forces. Why the hell is there not htree or four MG's, RTG's, etc. competing for our business? Nooooo, we not only have dozens (?) of Microgaming casinos, we have white labels coming now... all selling the same product in a different package - the only difference is the Operator.

Could market forces make Virtual's name be gold, or slowly choke them off? I don't know. But I've never met a business I couldn't improve; and the first step is to listen to the customer, then the lost customer, then the potential customer.
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I guess i am for regulation, but I hope it is grass-roots driven, and not what we in the States will probably get; a package prepared by the corporate big boys designed to eliminate the possibility of entrepreneurs and independants. They'll have some ridiculous liability requirements (instead of a collective insurance pool) and other things to make it impossible unless you are backed by billions. Bummer.

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[Casinomeister]

It just doesn't make any sense; I think they could rebuild their business model and bury their bad track record in the past if they chose to.
...I think as long as the promotions in this industry are run by way of bonuses, the Virtual Group will probably continue to run they way they do today... how could they possibly change without changing their business model, and if the other 500 casinos out there can't come up with a better way to promote and retain their clients, how can the Virtual Group?

I've met with them and have seen this business model. That was last October and it seemed that they were on the right track, so I gave them another chance.

It was relatively a good plan, but even with one's best plan laid - failure comes when it remains just a plan. It was just a stack of papers; that's about it. There are still players not being paid their winnings by agreed upon schedules, other players are being jerked around by manipulative "management" techniques (sorry, manager is not in right now, will you please go away?), and they still have this roguelike bumbling aura about them. Get a load of the 911 promos they had last month

[chuchu59]

I've met with them and have seen this business model. That was last October and it seemed that they were on the right track, so I gave them another chance.

It was relatively a good plan, but even with one's best plan laid - failure comes when it remains just a plan. It was just a stack of papers; that's about it. There are still players not being paid their winnings by agreed upon schedules, other players are being jerked around by manipulative "management" techniques (sorry, manager is not in right now, will you please go away?), and they still have this roguelike bumbling aura about them. Get a load of the 911 promos they had last month

They say that they want to reform but dont even bother to try. I may only be guessing but they could be trying to get their act together last October only to see their customer base whittled away by the loss of US customers. They cannot brave the cold and arent in for the long haul. Maybe its time to say that they have had enough of probations and that they are permanently rogued.

You are right Bryan. The 911 promos were disgusting and I consider this an understatement.

[kyleb]

They say that they want to reform but dont even bother to try. I may only be guessing but they could be trying to get their act together last October only to see their customer base whittled away by the loss of US customers. They cannot brave the cold and arent in for the long haul. Maybe its time to say that they have had enough of probations and that they are permanently rogued.

You are right Bryan. The 911 promos were disgusting and I consider this an understatement.

This is unfortunately true with the departure of Victoria. Last October was when the bonuses were great, and even at the beginning of this year (Jan-March) things were fine despite NETeller being gone.

The truth is, though, that the Virtual Group isn't the only one to go bad. Look at former reputable places like most MG casinos now - Fortune Lounge, Casino Rewards, Mini Vegas / Vegas Affiliates, and Jackpot Factory. All of them are stealing winnings AFTER the fact as well - a classic RTG tactic.

[lojo]

This is unfortunately true with the departure of Victoria. Last October was when the bonuses were great, and even at the beginning of this year (Jan-March) things were fine despite NETeller being gone.

They can play good manager-bad manager until the cows come home. I am of the experience that if you piss one off, they'll all fex you, but if you have repoir with another that's as far as it goes. The bottom line is this: that is a dysfunctional family, not a professional business. I sincerely wish them well, and anyone who has ever played there.

Signed; former loyal customer.

The truth is, though, that the Virtual Group isn't the only one to go bad. Look at former reputable places like most MG casinos now - Fortune Lounge, Casino Rewards, Mini Vegas / Vegas Affiliates, and Jackpot Factory. All of them are stealing winnings AFTER the fact as well - a classic RTG tactic.

That is, no offense intended, a crock.

This so-called 'tactic' can't be substantiated.
I already argued for fortune lounge because no one else would - they were raided and attacked (due to their weakness in terms) and some honest players were scooped up in the bullshit. They would have been paid without CasinoMeister or eCogra intervention. So I believe.

CR - ever had a problem not related to a bonus? No? Yes? It was resolved.

Vegas aff? Not in my experience except personally; they paid as soon as the processors were able.

JPF? wtf.

You are talking about several different animals here. Some don't need to change their stripes or spots.