wofacai bonus issue: Pontoon = Blackjack Game?

[tristan727]

There is no code of conduct other than the house edge. If you want your 'winnings' don't use bonuses.

Hi Lojo,
I am sure you are a very intelligent bloke, just didn't read what they & I said.

Can I please re-phrase it for you then, in short.

a) Under their clearly written legally binding contract, which I agreed to - I did not use the bonus at all. Please re-read their terms (player risks deposited funds before bonus, and winnings from bonus will be removed, etc.) & how I played ($10/hand, winning from the beginning & never needing to use bonus funds) - and then say if you still do not understand. Maybe I'll try and draw a flow-chart or something.

b)the code of conduct I was referring to was not with them - I am aware that they have legally binding agreements under the govt. of the Filipines, I was referring to any general opinions or feeling at websites like this one.

P.S. would much appreciate if a Mod could change the title of this thread to 'Wofacai confiscates my winnings against their own t&c's' please.

[lojo]

If you played with a bonus you might be fecked.

I'm sure it will all work out well, you are in good hands here, as you know.

[tristan727]

Well, obviously - judging by the reaction here to the lack of concern about Pontoon being hastily added to the t&c's.

However their t&c's say you play with your deposit first, not bonus - and they only claim the right to remove winnings derived from bonuses. As I never needed to dip into the bonus, they have no right to remove their winnings.

These t&c's are cyrstal clear, and cannot possibly be construed in any other way.thank goodness.

[lojo]

And it will be handled, that's why you're here, and that's what keeps 'em honest.

[spearmaster]

Deleted my argument, as no doubt we could argue til the cows come home.

If I could however point you out to Term 13.13 & 13.14. It is very clear that they have tacked on Pontoon as an afterthought to 13.14 - and 13.13 they have forgotten to update. How on earth from reading 13.13 - would anyone deduce Pontoon is banned? They even state exactly which forms of BJ are banned.

Now surely, after reading 13.13 (my apologies for not pointing it out before) - you would agree with me that it was clear enough that Pontoon was an allowed game? I could point you out to several casinos which allow Pontoon, but not Blackjack...is quite normal.

You and I obviously weren't reading the same page - in fact, I read the page which is directly linked to the promo:

http://www.wofacai.com/en/promo2.php

50% First Deposit Bonus up to $200

New Players, we welcome you at wofacai casino with a 50% sign up play bonus! As much you can get $200 for Free!

Example Deposit Bonus
Example One $300 $150
Example Two $500 $200

This bonus only available for wofacai Casino’s players who makes the first deposit!

Please notice that, each family could only have one account, if open the second account, this account will be frozen. Each family / account only has one chance to get the first deposit bonus.

For fair game, before you request to withdraw your deposit and bonus, you much wager at least 20 times your First Deposit plus the bonus.

This bonus doesn't apply for any blackjack games and Pontoon.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.

This bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless otherwise stated.

Wofacai Casino has the right to check any players’ game record, if we find some players together cheat on us when they use this bonus, we have the right to cancel their bonus.

Wofacai Casino has the right to make final decision.

Also, 13.14 does exclude pontoon, though I do not know if this was present in the past or whether it in fact was added in after the original rules.

[lojo]

bejeebibs! wofaci casinos?

[cyprean]

I believe that Tristan has a clear case here and SHOULD be paid.

Reasoning behind this

1) T&C 13.3. The first credits wagered will be deducted from your deposit(s) rather than from the PLAY BONUS.

He didn't use the bonus funds to play Pontoon.

2) T&C 13.14. Wofaca Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered in Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack, Craps (all sorts of Craps), SicBo (all sorts of SicBo) or Pontoon.

Player's own credits and winnings, not bonus, were wagered. Thus the player did not break the 13.14.

3) In the previous T&C only 2 BJ games were disallowed: BJ Switch and Surrender. Not pontoon.

4) Casinos are designed to attract recreational players. (although complicated T&Cs could confuse most lawyers) How a player who isn't a pro gambler is supposed to know that Pontoon is a Blackjack family game? If a recreational player surfs around the games and selects a cool sounding game called Pontoon and as it not not named on the "forbidden games list" like blackjack switch is, how on earth the casino justifies stealing this player's winnings based on not knowing that game belongs to the blackjack family? A recreational player might easily do this and the casino needs to update their terms and conditions.


A polite message to the casino:
Please pay the player. Update the T&Cs to better serve players.

[lojo]

You make an excellent argument here Cyprean, as does Tristan. My two cents is that the player should be paid. If the casino wants to clarify it's terms after the fact, they might as well sign up to wikipedia and edit the pontoon page to mention blackjack, or the blackjack page to mention pontoon.

[Dirk Diggler]

Spear - I'm sorry but there is no way a player can be expected to know Pontoon is considered to be covered under the umbrellla 'all sorts of blackjack'.

I'm sure this has been brought up many a time and surely only games with 'blackjack' in the name can be classed so definitively. It's the casinos responsibility to clarify this in their terms if they want it to be excluded.

The fact they changed their terms to include it shows they know they weren't clear and therefore any doubt should be in favour of the player.

[lojo]

And the OP may well have learned that the time spent using bonuses would be better spent on overtime at work and playing without them? Any thoughts T?