Problems At Winward

[ChrisV]

Hi folks,

A week or two ago I read about a 100% $1,000 max bonus being offered on Winward Casino. That sounded pretty good, and a site I read indicated that while people sometimes experienced delayed cashouts, everyone eventually got paid. They seemed to be a pretty established casino. A quick check of Casinomeister's lists of dodgy casinos revealed nothing. I should probably have scoped the forums first as there are a few previous threads about problems with Winward, but anyway...

I duly bought in for my $1,000, but when I logged into my account, I had only been given a $250 bonus. I emailed support and also one other address which I found on the website as being associated with bonuses. There was dead silence. I decided this was not a site I wanted to play at, and checked the terms and conditions to see whether I could withdraw. I read this:

Players must wager at least 12 times the amount of their deposit in order to cash out any winnings. Also the bonus money must be wagered the same amount of times as the deposit in order to be able to cash out. The bonus will also kick in once you spend 95% of your deposit. Players who attempt to cash out any winnings prior to having met the wagering requirements will have the bonus canceled and the withdrawal request declined, this process cannot be undone.

This sounded fine, since I didn't have any "winnings", having not played a single game of anything at the site. I duly submitted a withdrawal request for the amount of my original deposit. When the withdrawal was processed I received this:

Dear Chris,

Please note that your withdrawal request has been declined due to the fact that as per our rules on the website, before we process a withdrawal request customers must meet wagering criteria, for more information on this topic please visit this link:

Bonus Rules

Your withdrawal request has been sent back to your Winward Casino account and will be processed the following Monday if meet this criteria.

Thank you,

Winward Casino
Accounting Department

I replied with:

Hi,

First of all, at the point I bought in, your site was advertising a 100% match bonus to $1,000. I notice that has now changed to $500. But in any case, I didn't receive either a $1,000 or $500 bonus. I got a $250 bonus. I emailed support and a couple of other people about this and all my emails were ignored. Given this misrepresentation, I decided I did not want to play at Winward and therefore cashed out my deposit without placing any bets. I did not attempt to cash out the bonus money.

Your bonus terms and conditions does not say that I am required to complete the wagering requirements before requesting a withdrawal of my original deposit. From the terms:

" Players must wager at least 12 times the amount of their deposit in order to cash out any winnings.... Players who attempt to cash out any winnings prior to having met the wagering requirements will have the bonus canceled and the withdrawal request declined..."

I'm not attempting to cash out winnings. How could I have winnings, given I haven't played any games? I'm just cashing out my initial deposit. I don't want any bonus and I don't want to play at Winward. I would simply like my money refunded.

Please respond with an assurance that I will be able to cash out my original deposit this coming Monday.

Thanks
Chris Vinall

This has been met with 48 hours of silence.

The bonus has now been removed from my account and I unfortunately have no proof that I was originally given only a $250 bonus. If you hit the terms and conditions link above, you'll note that even though the ad on the left says $500 max deposit now, the terms and conditions still indicate a $1,000 maximum, which is proof that they are changing their story from day to day.

What's my play here? I can simply play out the wagering requirements, but it's pretty annoying given there's no guarantee they will cash me out even then. Or, I can dig my heels in and insist that they cash out my deposit. Is this a severe enough problem to pitch a bitch? Advice of experienced casino-handlers appreciated.

Cheers
Chris

[vinylweatherman]

Winward have had many problems, and one is the ignoring of player E-mails. In this case they have falsely allowed a $1000 bonus offer to be advertised, and then replaced it with the $500 offer, which is the usual one here. However, they reneged even on that deal, and awarded only $250. They seem to have READ your E-mails though, as they have removed the bonus as per your request. In theory, there should be no barrier to your cashing in, as with no bonus, and you having never played, there should be no WR to worry about.
If you do nothing, they will lock the account after 30 days of inactivity, and probably ask you to E-mail support to get it unlocked, and they will probably ignore this E-mail as well.
I once played there, and actually ended up ahead, but they suddenly started ignoring E-mails and upgraded the software so it didn't work on my PC. I decided to withdraw the remaining cashable funds, and uninstall the software. It took over a year, and several ignored E-mails for them to finally pay the funds, and only because "Jetset" has a contact there who got things moving again.
While not rogued here, they are either rogued, or on probation, on other forums. They should at least be "not recommended" here due to these ongoing communication difficulties, and willingness to renege on advertised offers without explanation.
If they had at least explained why you only got $250, and perhaps found it to be a mistake, they may still have a customer, and not a thread get again at the top of the complaints section.

[aka23]

Winward tells me that after you deposit $1000, you will be initially given a $250 bonus. Then you should receive an email from Winward with a link to credit the remaining $750 bonus. Note that this email may get caught in bulk/junk folders. The $500 limit applies to certain countries that they claim have a higher rate of bonus abuse -- Germany, Denmark, Israel, Great Britain and Finland. These countries also have a different wagering requirement.

Having said that Winward has a history of rule changes, delayed cashouts, and general problems. I was told that management recently changed and such problems would be improved, but that seems to not be the case.

My personal experience with Winward is mixed. I've done quite well there. It is one of the 5 casinos where I have had the largest overall gain. My cashouts went smoothly (aside from the only processed on Monday rule). My one problem was with a special bonus offered by email. Winward said the only guy who could credit the bonus was the promotions manager who sent the email. It was a real hassle communicating with him, especially since he was offline for a week while doing something in Australia. They also changed the allowed games list midway through the wagering, which caused more hassle.

If you do nothing, they will lock the account after 30 days of inactivity, and probably ask you to E-mail support to get it unlocked, and they will probably ignore this E-mail as well.

My account has been inactive for quite a bit longer than 30 days, and it has not been locked.

[vinylweatherman]

Winward tells me that after you deposit $1000, you will be initially given a $250 bonus. Then you should receive an email from Winward with a link to credit the remaining $750 bonus. Note that this email may get caught in bulk/junk folders. The $500 limit applies to certain countries that they claim have a higher rate of bonus abuse -- Germany, Denmark, Israel, Great Britain and Finland. These countries also have a different wagering requirement.

Having said that Winward has a history of rule changes, delayed cashouts, and general problems. I was told that management recently changed and such problems would be improved, but that seems to not be the case.

My personal experience with Winward is mixed. I've done quite well there. It is one of the 5 casinos where I have had the largest overall gain. My cashouts went smoothly (aside from the only processed on Monday rule). My one problem was with a special bonus offered by email. Winward said the only guy who could credit the bonus was the promotions manager who sent the email. It was a real hassle communicating with him, especially since he was offline for a week while doing something in Australia. They also changed the allowed games list midway through the wagering, which caused more hassle.


My account has been inactive for quite a bit longer than 30 days, and it has not been locked.

I hear the excuse from casinos that claim they reply to all E-mails, but that users must have lost them to their spam filters. Nice try, but when I had this particular issue with Winward my ISP just did not "do" spam filters, and I had nothing my end either. I also have casinos claim they didn't reply because they didn't receive the E-mail, however surely I would have got some kind of delivery error returned, even if after a few days. Given that casinos specify the E-mail addresses that should be used to communicate with them, as a business they should make certain that nothing their end could be interfering with inbound E-mails from their own customers.

Had Winward made more effort with this, this player could have been told how to get the outstanding $750 to make up what was advertised, and would probably then have been happy to play there.
When I joined, I found UK to not be on the list, so I E-mailed them to tell them I was not able to play, and that they really should not be promoting to the UK. They certainly replied to that no problem, telling me to pretend to be from another country, and they would manually correct this. They said they had banned the UK, but now wanted us back. I won over $500, and they did pay, even though only on Mondays. It all went wrong when they updated the software and offered me a birthday bonus. It was a real pain getting the offer credited due to unpublished conditions (I had to deposit to get me "free offer"). I then found my account locked due to 30 days inactivity, so they certainly DID do this, even if not any longer. On playing my bonus, the software just didn't work properly, even on the very lowest settings, 16 colours and 600x480 screen - I found this pitiful, and wanted nothing more to do with it and attempted to withdraw after releasing the bonus from WR - it took over a YEAR to get paid, as they locked the account while I waited through months of unanswered E-mails as to why I was still waiting. It was such a small sum that I just gave up in the end.
While they paid in the end, CS was abysmal, so was the software, and they can shove "Parlay" powered sites where the sun don't shine.

[ChrisV]

They seem to have READ your E-mails though, as they have removed the bonus as per your request.

No, I didn't request that. That happens automatically on a failed withdrawal as per the t&c.

aka23, given this kind of history I think you should toughen up your pretty mild warning on Winward.

So my question remains... what do you guys think is my best option here? Am I going to get anywhere pitching a bitch?

[aka23]

aka23, given this kind of history I think you should toughen up your pretty mild warning on Winward.

I'll add some of the issues mentioned in this thread to the warning later tonight.

So my question remains... what do you guys think is my best option here? Am I going to get anywhere pitching a bitch?

I'd recommend trying live support, where you will get a response. Phone support is also available, although you may have to pay charges depending on your country. Hopefully, after you explain the situation, they will approve the withdrawal. If not, then I'd recommend emailing management. Live support can give the email addresses. In some cases, general support needs management approval to override default rules.

Other options include:
--PMing me. I have an affiliate contact that may be helpful.

--PMing Jetset. VW indicated that he has been helpful with other Winward issues.

--Pitching a Bitch. Bryan likely also has a contact, as well as a good amount of influence. One player felt that a key reason for a rapid resolution to his dispute was mentioning "Casinomeister" in his email.

[ChrisV]

OK thanks, sounds like a good plan of attack.

[ChrisV]

No response from live support. There's a shock. It's hard to get anything resolved when there's nobody home.

Onwards to Plan B, I guess.

[Casinomeister]

I'm just catching up with the PABs that were submitted during my absence. Any updates here?

[ChrisV]

I communicated privately with aka23, and with the help of a contact he had at Winward I have been paid out today. Well, $961 of my $1000 deposit, anyway. Presumably the rest is the victim of the plunging US dollar, which is weird given that my Winward account currency was USD... but hey, typical...

This is resolved, but my personal recommendation is still to stay well clear of Winward. Search Casinomeister forums and you'll see this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. Dealing with support was a nightmare.