Problems At Winward

[JasonXorg]

Well, here is my story on Winward

On Saturday the 5th of May, I signed up for the $500 bonus they promote. When I tried to log in for the first time, my account was disabled. Figuring some security, I contacted Live Support. They apologized for the trouble, enabled my account and gave me $10.
I deposited $500 and went to check if the bonus was added. It said that I had an "unqualified bonus" of $ 500
I contacted Live Support again, and the problem was fixed via e-mail. Time to start playing...

I played BJ and kept track of my wagers. At the right time, the bonus was added to my available funds, so I could up the ante a bit. After playing enough during 2 days, I was up $500, for a total available fund of $1500 (of which $500 was sticky).
Just to make sure, I contacted Live Support, and asked if I had met the WR just in case I wanted to cash out a bit. She told me "I'd better contact the accounting department on that". Because of the time difference, I couldn't at the moment and left it to that.

On Tuesday the 8th, I tried to log in for some more BJ-action, only to find my account was disabled. Stunned, I contacted Live Support. All she could tell my that my account was closed by Management Decision and my initial deposit would be refunded
So apparently they don't like winners and just take away any profits like that??
I had to send an e-mail to 'johan@winwardcasino.com' for further explanation. Of course, I did immediately.

Although they advertise with a "24hr response time", I did not receive any word. So I contacted Fred from Live Support (transcript below). Basically, he tells me it's no use in trying to contact them because the decision was final.

This means they lure you in with juicy bonusses, but when you win and have the nerve to merely inform about a withdrawal, they'll void your winnings, close your account, ignore you. For now, I can only hope to get my deposit back but I won't know untill next monday/payday.
If I get any answer to why, I'll report back. I'll also send this to aka23 and others for their consideration.

They will probably label me as a bonus abuser (even tho I haven't cashed out a single dime). Great way to treat customers.

My opinion: ROGUE and avoid.

Fred: Hello, this is Fred. How can I help you?
you: Hi Fred, I would like to talk to someone of the management of Winward
you: I sent an e-mail yesterday but it's 23 hours later and no reply
Fred: what is the email about?
Fred: Can I have your User ID please ?
you: *********
you: my account has been disabled by management decision, but they told me they refunded my deposit. I don't know why my winnings are voided
you: I have only been playing for a couple of days :-/
Fred: Please hold on for a moment while I check in your records...
Fred: your account will be refunded as soon as possible
Fred: check your inbox
Fred: this is the message from management
you: I didn't receive anything yet
you: but will my account be re-enabled or my deposit refunded?
Fred: deposit
you: But I want to know WHY my winnings are taken away and my account closed
Fred: there is all there is to it
you: I didn't do anything wrong, but playing for 2 days :S
Fred: management call
Fred: sorry
you: Give me someone from the management
Fred: not available
you: when will one be available?
Fred: management has made a decision on this account
Fred: there is no point on contacting them
Fred: nor will it be
Fred: just check your inbox
you: This is great for their reputation then. When will my money be back?
Fred: keep checking your balance and inbox
you: Well, still nothing in my inbox
you: don't receive any mail
Fred: ok, later then
you: I expect my money back VERY soon, cause it's mine, Winward has stolen enough already now
Fred: ok
you: Have a great day Fred, I know it's not your fault
Fred: keep checking both things
Fred: yes i know
you: I will

[NextToYou]

They try to do this for everyone. If you win, they lock your account without sending any info and give your deposit back. The when you try to contact "management" they answer with some reason which is not valid. A long time ago when I did their sign-up there was some woman whos e-mail I got after several live chat sessions - I emailed her and said that my case will go to casinomeister and all over the internet if they don´t pay me my winnings. After that I was paid.

I don´t understand affiliates who promote them. Completely rogue behaviour.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by NextToYou

They try to do this for everyone. If you win, they lock your account without sending any info and give your deposit back. The when you try to contact "management" they answer with some reason which is not valid. A long time ago when I did their sign-up there was some woman whos e-mail I got after several live chat sessions - I emailed her and said that my case will go to casinomeister and all over the internet if they don´t pay me my winnings. After that I was paid.

I don´t understand affiliates who promote them. Completely rogue behaviour.

I had a lucky escape, I "did" their $500 SUB a while back, and got paid out over $1000. I even found a loophole, and they still paid!

The loophole was simple, the bonus remains in the account for further play, so as soon as you get a few wins under your belt, withdraw, but wait for payment before doing the same the following week. Making a number of small withdrawals I thought would be too obvious to them and I would get banned & locked. I only had problems with a remaining $20 or so, which I let them sit on for over a year. I only got paid when I mentioned the experience and Jetset was able to open communications with them - they were only to pleased to pay it and get my account "off the books". (I think that means they didn't want me back, but would only call it a ban if I tried.)
The initial problem was they ignored ALL attempts to communicate with them until I just gave up since it was only $20, and I was already up $500.

[footdr]

I posted the following under Slots village unethical practices.
I am mentioning it here because if they did this because of "bonus abuse" while not allowing "unbonusable accounts". They are truly unethical and should be ROUGED by all.

I missing something here? Have any of you ever ran across a casino that REQUIRES YOU TO ACCEPT DEPOSIT BONUSES OR ANY BONUS FOR THAT MATTER?

The most imAm portant reason I posted my chat with slotvillage support was due to the supervisors claim that they DO NOT ALLOW UNBONUSABLE ACCOUNTS.

In other words if I want to deposit and play there I HAVE TO ACCEPT THEIR BONUSES!

Obviously this immediately reduces my odds of winning as I have playthrough on my deposits and because of the way the have made a big deal of BONUS ABUSERS and due to their T&C I do not want the bonuses.

It is highly unethical to force bonuses on players in my opinion.

If you have played there would you please post your experience of bonuses being added to your account including whether you wanted the bonuses.

Most casinos will allow you to have the bonus removed prior to playing your deposit or the bonus. NOT THEM

THEY SHOULD BE CALLED ON THIS BY CASINOMEISTER TO CHANGE THEIR TERMS OR BE ROUGED

[JasonXorg]

Well, I have sent Johan the following mail, just to see how player-friendly they are.

Dear Johan,

Allow me to have another go at making my case. I ask you to read this and reconsider the managements decision.

As stated on your site, an online casino offers bonusses as an incentive for players to sign up and play at the casino. In order to protect themselves from abuse, casinos back these offers with Terms and Conditions, stating clear rules for the bonus. By signing up, the player agrees to play according to these rules. If a player does not abide these, the casino has the right to refuse the player.

If a player visits a casino, there is a chance of losing money and a slighty smaller chance of winning some money. That’s the whole idea behind gambling.


When I signed up, I read your T&C carefully. Basically it stated that to be entitled for the bonus, one had to wager his deposit 12 times. After that, the bonus would be added and had to be played another 12 times. This is a reasonable way to protect the bonus. The wagers could take place on a large range of games. Further, it makes rules for early withdrawal.


All seemed fair to me, so I signed up, made my deposit and started playing my absolute favorite game of Blackjack (one of the allowed games). After wagering enough, the bonus was added to my bankroll, allowing me to wager a bit more each hand. Luck was on my side because I managed to win a nice amount.
Before I would do anything stupid, I wanted to check if I met my wagering requirements, just in case I wanted to either cash out, play a dis-allowed game or anything like that. So I contacted Live Support for that information. After that I played some more and called it a night.


The rest is known history.


But I feel that the logic Winward Casino follows, is not correct. First of all, you made me an offer through the bonus. That offer was backed by your rules. I had the choice to accept or decline. I accepted the rules as stated. Then Winward accepted my bets which I could either win or lose. In this case I happened to win, on a game that was allowed. Nowhere was mentioned that playing a single favorite game might be flagged as suspicious. I finished the wagering requirement, having made enough bets to prove I’m serious. Please note that I made bets from $10 - $25 each, depending on my bankroll. These bets are pretty much for a bankroll my size. So this indicates that I was not using a certain betting pattern to create, and I quote, “to try and manipulate an un-fair advantage”. The odds were the same each and every bet, I did not have a unfair advantage by cheating or fraudulent behaviour. Besides, the T&C mentions nothing on what one can bet or not.

All in all, I played by your rules, nothing more, nothing less. After that, I didn’t even initiate cashout of any sorts. And still your casino felt the need to label me as a bonus abuser.


In your effort to catch abusers, you are making the mistake to prey on innocent players that really have the intention on staying, like myself. I feel you could have waited to see if I would cash out, and what amount that would be. At that point, you could have decided if I were in it to exploit the bonus.

I can honostly say that I would have played a lot more on Winward, simply because I like the software, the graphics and my results so far.


Now I want you to know, I have posted my treatment on Casinomeister.com. I strongly believe that this kind of customer service is not appreciated by the online gambling community and I feel other players have to be warned. As you can understand, this could mean that players are going to avoid your casino, costing you business.


To summarize: I did NOT break any of your rules, on which games are allowed and how much I had to wager. You accepted my bets, risking losing, but expected winning as a casino. You still deemed it necessary to label me, before I even cashed out a single dime, a bonus abuser. You took away my winnings and refunded my deposit (still waiting for that btw).


Now at least it would be fair to grant me my winnings, those were made fair and square. If I would have lost money, I am sure you wouldn’t have refunded that. This would mean that Winward blocks you when you win, but probably keeps you around when you lose. That’s running a casino brilliantly riskfree. This will not pass the scrutiny of the gambling community, that’s for sure.


There is a solution to all this. And the best thing about it: it’s a win – win solution!

All I am asking, is for Winward to reopen my account and give me my bankroll back. This gives me the chance to prove I am a returning customer. You can ask other casinos like Intercasino, BetFred, Playboy Gaming, 32Red and so on that I do actually play without bonusses and that my game of choice is BJ. I could even make promises like: I’ll play a lot for at least a month, outside the bonus, wagering a lot more, just to show I am a respectable player.

Being able to play again with that bankroll, would be the ‘win’ for me.


The ‘win’ for Winward:

You gain a player, who is serious. But I think it’s more important that you show goodwill to players, that you are willing to listen to your customers. Perhaps even your judgement can be wrong sometimes, as long as you show the willingness to correct errors, players will respect your business. Of course, if you are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, I will communicate this the same way as I have the previous situation. Again, it would show potential customers that you are not a casino simply out on the hunt for abusers or taking money, but that you are serious about your business and customers.


I truly hope you want to reconsider my situation based on my arguments. Please let me know your decision. The sooner this is resolved, the better.


Regards

[blaqpoet]

The same thing happened to me. They won't pay no matter what you do.

CasinoMeister I think it's time to add Winward to the rogue list.

[blaqpoet]

Dear XXXX,

Please note that the reason why your original deposit was refunded is because the level of hands you played on black jack.

The casino has the right to revoke any account at any point in time if the level of play is suspicious to us, which happened in your case.

Your account has been disabled and your original deposit has been refunded as of now.

Regards,

Johan
Casino Manager
Winward Group

Enough said.

[JasonXorg]

Well, my e-mail, as posted above, might have some effect. Johan has sent me the following mail, which I think shows a better side of Winward:

Hi *****,

I believe you have a very strong point on this email and it resumes to the bottom of it, I will study your case along with my other managers, and I will have a response to you by Monday definitely.

I appreciate you taking the time to compose this email.

I will be in touch.

Regards,

Johan

Casino Manager

Winward Group

I hope to hear some more good news on Monday. But more so, I hope that this is a turn around for the way the situations are handled.
I'll be back.

[sirius]

This group has been like this for a long time and has been blacklisted on my site for years. Only complaining to Casinomeister will give you a good chance of payment. It's not much to do with recent pressures in the industry.

[JasonXorg]

Well, monday has passed and thursday is dawning. No word from Johan, even though I mailed him on tuesday if they had discussed my situation.

I did receive my original deposit back today, but that is not what this is about.